Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situation

[judih]

[Admin note:
This thread was split from this thread here:
http://studioeight.tv/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24824
Someone asked Judih how the current altercation was started, asking who started it. I'm sorry I don't remember the exact wording of the question as the member deleted the question. Judih asked that the thread be split into separate discussion, so I split it. The following discussion ensued, starting with Judih's answer. - Doreen Peri]


No. This particular misssion started as a response to terrorists attacking four soldiers patrolling the border. However, the impetus was 12 years of attacks on civilian populations in the southern negev. (Including school children on the way to and from school).

[Atehequa]

Of course Israel was in the right. I don't know what I was thinking.

Probably looking at this matter through the eyes of a subjugated person myself. For the longest time I thought men like George Washington, Andrew Jackson and George Armstrong Custer as being villains, but come to realize how dare the American Indians oppose the manifest destiny of a chosen people.

Atehequa good Indian now

[judih]

Of course Israel was in the right. I don't know what I was thinking.

Probably looking at this matter through the eyes of a subjugated person myself. For the longest time I thought men like George Washington, Andrew Jackson and George Armstrong Custer as being villains, but come to realize how dare the American Indians oppose the manifest destiny of a chosen people.

Atehequa good Indian now

world history is a sad tale of twisted truths. What i'm describing is not history but what i'm living.
When you walk are you attacked by rocketfire? My life is what it is. I know it's difficult but try to enter this thread with open ears.

[Atehequa]

No rocket fire yet, but years ago I was thrown out of a bar once in a rather rough manner. I paid no heed to the sign outside that particular establishment -

‘NO INDIANS OR DOGS ALLOWED’

I was a young man then and if a rocket was in my possession at that particular time…….

My father use to tell there are two sides to every angry story and before passing judgment or taking sides, I should listen to both.

You bet history is a sad tale of twisted truths. What you are describing will be history from an area which has a long history that reflects the present. Such sad histories have lasting effects upon the people. Our history was one of vast homelands we once lived and roamed before others came, drove us off and put up property lines and fences.

As a child I watched western movies and television shows that always portrayed people like me as being the bad guys. Growing older I learned much more about people like me and come to find out who the bad guys really were. The ones who once made war upon us and the ones who made movies or television shows depicting us as murderous bad guys.

And still if we speak our minds and hearts, people like me are looked upon as bad guys.

It is good you are still alive and we can share in conversation.

[tinkerjack]

...I have not lost my sense of humor yet

"history is bunk"

1959 in a high school history class taught by Mr. Waskow I learned about the small pox blankets. My first inkling that my construct of the United States government was not as it was depicted in John Wayne westerns.

Mr. Waskow talked about those blankets as a segue from the text as it appeared in the text book.

It was years and years later before I heard about those blankets again.

Bow down and worship a teacher day

[Atehequa]

Lord Jeffrey Amherst came up with the plan to distribute infected blankets and other gift packages which included cuttings of infected cloth. These gifts took out thousands of woodland people.

Those who know true history,






are they more able to see through the BS served up today ?

[judih]

the atrocities inflicted upon native americans are documented but seldom heard.
We know how the story worked out - capitalist greed worked its wonders.

The story here is not the story of the USA. You might believe that the equation is easily transferable, but, alas, it is not. I suggest that this discussion move to a new thread. Studio 8 is large enough for all conversations - this thread was specifically about my pulse and if it still beat.

Let's shift location, shall we?

[Atehequa]

I suggest that this discussion move to a new thread. Studio 8 is large enough for all conversations - this thread was specifically about my pulse and if it still beat.

Let's shift location, shall we?

Ahhh, relocation. Some of us are very familiar with being re-located.

No need for anything to be moved, judih, you are a fine poet and I'm happy that you're still drawing breath and possess a beating pulse, specifically.

[Doreen Peri]

I split the thread so the discussion that ensued now resides in a new thread, rather than the thread where I inquired about Judih's safety. I hope this is OK with everyone.

Atehequa -
If you'd like a different title to this thread, let me know and I can change the title.

[Doreen Peri]

As an outsider who has never lived in the middle east, it's hard to tell (even with ongoing reports my entire life) exactly what the heck is actually going on over there. My heart goes out to all who are caught living with the turmoil and war.

Also as an insider who DOES live in the US, I am ashamed of the way the original founders of the US committed genocide on the Native Americans, stole their land, and housed the survivors on reservations which appear to be essentially concentration camps. It's disturbing to the point of making me physically ill this time of year surrounding "Thanksgiving" when we celebrate the harvest and remember the history of the early US occupation.

I agree with Atehequa that those who our history books have made out to be heros are NOT heros at all! Instead, they are imperialists, territory thieves, and also have committed genocide.

For THIS we are thankful at Thanksgiving? It's deplorable!

Do I see the similarities in the two situations? Yes, I admit I do, though I also admit that I don't live in the middle east so all I know is what the news reports tell me.

What similarities do I see? I see a displaced group of people who call themselves "Palestinians" and claim that the land Israel currently occupies is theirs.

Is this true? Was their land stolen?

If it's not true, then what IS the truth? Where is the land that belongs to the Palestinians? Why don't they have homes?

Why are the Palestinians not allowed to have their own land, their own state?

It's extremely disturbing.

[one of those jerks]

Why are the Palestinians not allowed to have their own land, their own state?

maybe because G d is on our side.
please pardon my sick sense of humor


"All I know is what I read in the papers"

I got more opinions than I do bodily orifices to express them. That said . . .

It seems to me the British Empire started this mess during and after World War One. They made promises to the Arabs and the Jews that they did not keep. Kind of like the great white father in Washington during the Native American holocaust.


This is a pretty fair over view of Palestine/Israel situation imo
"Why History Matters: International Law and the Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict."


I found this video is extremely interesting, it traces the present round of Jihad back to the policies of the British government 150 years ago. The big picture placing the conflict in the overall situation.


It is actually the first video in a series of seven, there are two more on Sudan, and four more on Palestine.
The BBC comes clean on this one.
Clash of Worlds : Britain and Palestine Part 1


I am so ambivalent about the Brits, I admire them so much yet I loathe what they did during their most powerful era. Now it is my countries turn to be an Empire and bloody the waters some more.

[zero_hero]

Noam Chomsky & Victor Kattan - Why History Matters - Israel/Palestine 2/7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAnMTVD2-yw

[Atehequa]

I split the thread so the discussion that ensued now resides in a new thread, rather than the thread where I inquired about Judih's safety. I hope this is OK with everyone.

Atehequa -
If you'd like a different title to this thread, let me know and I can change the title.

What about calling it the thread Atehequa didn't start and put yourself as the OP? Then perhaps I'll weigh in. Until then the only thing you got is a wooden Indian standing outside a cigar store.

[Doreen Peri]

I split the thread so the discussion that ensued now resides in a new thread, rather than the thread where I inquired about Judih's safety. I hope this is OK with everyone.

Atehequa -
If you'd like a different title to this thread, let me know and I can change the title.

What about calling it the thread Atehequa didn't start and put yourself as the OP? Then perhaps I'll weigh in. Until then the only thing you got is a wooden Indian standing outside a cigar store.

I don't know how to do that. The posts are time-stamped and go in order. I understood Judih's request to split the topic since the original topic was about how she was doing and I agreed it was a good idea to split it.

I'll see what I can do. I'll try.

[Doreen Peri]

Atehequa,
I did the best I could. I hope this solution is OK with you. I couldn't find any earlier post by me to start the discussion with and I don't believe it's possible with this software to add a post to the time-stamped posts as if a post came earlier in order to start a new thread. If it's not OK with you, let me know and we'll try to figure something else out.

Judih,
I hope it's OK with you that I edited your reply and explained at the top of the thread why the posts were split and that you were answering a question posed by one of the members. The question has been deleted so I couldn't quote it. If it's not OK with you, let me know and we'll try to figure something else out.