afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

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mnaz
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afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by mnaz » May 3rd, 2011, 8:06 pm

for those folks who continue to see winning in afghanistan as vital to our security... are the taliban connected to al qaeda's (apparent) global aims? information has surfaced in recent years that seems to refute this basic assumption, such as this article from i.p.s., e.g. (2/11/10):

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=50300
WASHINGTON, Feb 11, 2010 (IPS) - Evidence now available from various sources, including recently declassified U.S. State Department documents, shows that the Taliban regime led by Mullah Mohammad Omar imposed strict isolation on Osama bin Laden after 1998 to prevent him from carrying out any plots against the United States. The evidence contradicts the claims by top officials of the Barack Obama administration that Mullah Omar was complicit in Osama bin Laden's involvement in the al Qaeda plot to carry out the terrorist attacks in the United States on Sep. 11, 2001. It also bolsters the credibility of Taliban statements in recent months asserting that it has no interest in al Qaeda's global jihadist aims.
in 2009, no clear consensus over the taliban's threat could be reached during the debate on war escalation, even as the taliban made some inroads from the afghan border into pakistan's tribal areas, a trend that was obviously cause for concern, though it should be kept in perspective according to various accounts written then, such as this time article:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 67,00.html
U.S. leaders began sounding the alarm last week when the militants, buoyed by a peace agreement that put them into effective control of the Swat Valley, extended their reach...
The (Pakistani) generals don't share Clinton's view of the Taliban as some sort of external force invading territory the Pakistani military is obliged to protect; on the contrary, odious though it may be to the country's established political class and to the urban population that lives in the 21st century, the movement appears to be rooted in Pakistan's social fabric. The Taliban's recent advances have been accomplished in no small part through recruiting locals to its cause by exploiting long-standing resentment toward the venal local judicial and administrative authorities that prop up a feudal social order.
What's more, if the Taliban's goal were to seize state power rather than local control, it would have little hope of doing so. The insurgency is largely confined to ethnic Pashtuns, who comprise little more than 15% of the population. It is unlikely to find significant resonance in the major cities such as Islamabad and Lahore . . . While the Taliban is reported to have made some inroads in southern Punjab and has linked up with small militant groups based in the province, it remains a minor presence in those parts of the country where the majority of Pakistanis live. Even in the most generous assessments of their fighting strength, they are very lightly armed and outnumbered by the army by a ratio of more than 50 to 1.
something else that you rarely hear discussed: is there evidence that the war, if anything, is accelerating pakistan's radicalization? the heavily-populated punjab area has seen a rise in militancy roughly corresponding with the latest military buildup. (although perhaps no irrefutable evidence exists to prove direct causality). from today, this article from the conservative (yes, conservative) weekly standard:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/new ... 53981.html
Rising militancy in Punjab poses a more serious threat to Pakistan's stability and American national security . . . It is against this backdrop that Western counterterrorism myopia becomes evident. For the past decade, the United States has focused its counterterrorism efforts in the region on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border and surrounding tribal areas.
http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/ ... -al-qaeda/
(Feb.7, 2011):
The Afghan Taliban would be ready to break with al Qaeda in order to reach a negotiated settlement to the Afghan war, and to ensure Afghanistan is not used as a base for international terrorism, according to a report by Kandahar-based researche rs Alex Strick van Linschoten and Felix Kuehn, released by New York University.
It says that the relationship between the Taliban and al Qaeda was strained both before and after the September 11 2001 attacks, partly because of their very different ideological roots. Al Qaeda grew out of militant Islamism in the Middle East, notably in Egypt, which — when fused with the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan — created its own view of global jihad. Taliban leaders grew up in rural southern Afghanistan, isolated from world events. Many were too young to play a big role in the Afghan jihad, and had no close ties to al Qaeda until after they took power in 1996. “Many Taliban leaders of the older generation are still potential partners for a negotiated settlement. They are not implacably opposed to the U.S. or West in general but to specific actions or policies in Afghanistan. These figures now understand the position of the international community much better than they did before 2001.
The NYU report argues, however, that military operations designed to fragment the Taliban may be making talks harder rather than easier by creating younger, more radicalised fighters less open to a peace deal. It says the U.S. policy of targeting mid-level commanders, along with arrests in Pakistan of senior leaders, is undercutting the old leadership and paving the way for a younger generation more open to al Qaeda. Indeed back in 2009, Taliban statements were already indicating evidence of a rift with al Qaeda. Some time when the history books are written, we will have to ask why that rift was not seized upon at the time, and indeed whether a negotiated settlement could have been achieved without the intensified fighting of 2010. . . “

and there is this analysis from one of the world's leading think tanks on security from last fall (guardian uk): "al qaeda and taliban threat is exaggerated..."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/se ... fghanistan
According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), the west's counter-insurgency strategy has "ballooned" out of proportion to the original aim of preventing al-Qaida from mounting terrorist attacks there, and must be replaced by a less ambitious but more sensible policy of "containment
and deterrence".
http://www.cfr.org/pakistan/al-qaeda-ta ... xus/p20838
Richard Barrett, Coordinator, UN Monitoring Team, al-Qaeda and Taliban Sanctions Committee, UN Monitoring Team, al-Qaeda and Taliban Sanctions Committee: If there is a money flow, it's from al-Qaeda to Taliban rather than Taliban to al-Qaeda, which is very interesting.The Afghan Taliban is a nationalist movement, and they repeatedly say that. When they look at what they've gained from their association with al-Qaeda, [it's] pretty much heavy on the negative than on the positive. They got kicked out in October 2001. Maybe if al-Qaeda hadn't attacked the United States in September 2001, they'd still be in Kabul. Now they're trying to get back. So although al-Qaeda leaders say, "Yes, Mullah Omar is our leader," operationally, it's not so strong. . . .if the Taliban were governing in Kabul, they wouldn't necessarily have al-Qaeda right behind them. Could they keep them out is the key question. In many parts of Afghanistan, particularly in Waziristan over the Durand Line, there's no way anyone's going to keep anybody out. There are hundreds of crossing points; there are villages which straddle the line. But maybe they would try. . . . I think personally that al-Qaeda is much more comfortable and better off, and far better established now, on Pakistan's side of the border.
Nigel Inkster, Director of Transnational Threats and Political Risk, International Institute for Strategic Studies; former Director for Operations and Intelligence, British Secret Intelligence Service, International Institute for Strategic Studies: . . .continuing pressure by [the] International Assistance Security Force in Afghanistan and the current campaign by Pakistan against their Taliban problem--has created a situation in which the jihadist forces have come together to perhaps a greater extent than they might otherwise have done through a perception of a common threat. If it came to be that the Taliban [was] able to recover all or part of Afghanistan, I think it improbable that [its] first act would be to invite al-Qaeda back in, not least because that would of course bring with it the obvious risk that [it] would continue to be the subject of U.S. and NATO attacks. So I don't think [the leadership] wants that. But they might not be able to prevent it. If you were to ask what al-Qaeda's leadership would like to do, the answer is they would like to get back to Afghanistan if they could.
....things to consider.

okay. now if one wants to argue that open-ended, costly large-scale war and occupation are justified for other possible reasons, such as, perhaps, general principles of justice and freedom, then fine, make that case. but is it still legitimate to keep sounding this apocalyptic world security alarm? that seems increasingly specious to me. are we doing almost as much (or more) harm as good in escalating this war? furthermore, is the war ultimately "winnable?" and what exactly will be "won?" and is it sustainable without prolonged major military occupation? didn't we already "win" this conflict once, some 9 years ago? let's look at what kind of a regime our blood and treasure is buying:

here are some articles on karzai's disaster of a regime:

from 8/23/10: http://www.examiner.com/afghanistan-hea ... zai-regime
How bad is the corruption? It is so pervasive that a majority of Afghans would welcome the return of the Taliban’s Islamic fascism if the only other alternative is continuing to live under the illegitimate Karzai regime’s reprobate incompetence and mob-like rule.
Authorities want to eliminate a surreal arrangement that allows government officials and other well-connected figures to board planes carrying suitcases packed with cash without declaring the transfers or being searched. A senior U.S. official said that serial numbers on U.S. currency were used to nail Afghanistan's former minister of Islamic affairs this year, who has been accused of extorting millions from companies seeking contracts.
On Jan. 14 a U.S.-trained special task force raided the headquarters of money transfer company New Ansari Exchange and discovered that New Ansari was helping to launder profits from the illicit opium trade and moved Taliban money that had been earned through extortion and drug trafficking. The crime unit also found links between the money transfers and some of the most powerful political and business figures in the country, including relatives of Mr. Karzai. Afghan customs documents reviewed by the Wall Street Journal indicate that $3.18 billion in cash was flown out of the country between January 2007 and February 2010... And this only includes declared amounts - the undeclared total is anybody's guess. Late last week Karzai directly intervened to win the quick release of senior aide Mohammad Zia Salehi... The latest story is that the corruption case against Salehi is wider than previously thought and Karzai wants to prevent Salehi from spilling his guts to investigators.
Hamid Karzai's brother, Ahmed Wali, has been implicated before for causing persons to " disappear," if you will. This is interesting because now Afghan corruption investigators say they fear for the safety of their families and do not believe it is possible to convict those close to the president.
wow. but at least afghan women are better off now, right? that is, aside from having to endure endless war. probably. they can attend school now. i certainly won't argue that conditions aren't better for women now, but to what degree? karzai's regime has unfortunately adopted many oppressive aspects of sharia law in regard to women, a few of them cited here (11/29/10):

http://revolutionaryfrontlines.wordpres ... -to-women/
The Karzai regime has adopted sharia-inspired laws related to marriage and the family that give men the right to prevent their wives from leaving the house. It is illegal for a wife not to give in to her husband's sexual demands. The Karzai's government habit of freeing men imprisoned for committing gang rape is so notorious that it even provoked a protest by the United Nations. In an interview with the BBC Persian service, Sima Samar, now the head of the Independent Human Rights Commission of Afghanistan, declared, the government institutions are a serious obstacle to women's rights in Afghanistan.

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by stilltrucking » May 4th, 2011, 9:57 pm

I think about the Marshall Plan for Europe after world war two. I think we can be proud of that but...
Billions Down the Drain in Useless US Afghan Aid


US officials admit privately that the torrent of aid money that has poured into Afghanistan has stoked corruption and done ordinary Afghans little good. Aimed at improving economic and social conditions in order to reduce support for the Taliban it is having the reverse effect of destabilizing the country. Afghanistan was identified as the third most corrupt country out of 178 in the world in a report released yesterday by Transparency International.
http://griid.org/2010/12/13/billions-do ... fghan-aid/

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by mnaz » May 6th, 2011, 1:35 pm

and of course, nobody wants to hear any of this. not when there's a terrorist behind every tree. remember the days when it was a red under every bed? bless the serene, wholesome 1950's, the age of mccarthy...

ah, but now i'm just rambling and raving...

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by stilltrucking » May 6th, 2011, 7:41 pm

"ah, but now i'm just rambling and raving..."

If not for my ramblings and ravings I would be pretty bored.

"know one wants to hear"
or they have been put into a stupor
and can't hear

I don't know mnaz, don't know
in my wildest ramblings and ravings i remember something Jota said
this from geezer memory so take it with some salt
Jota wrote once a people become enslaved they will never be free again.
I called him on it and he said well okay maybe they can be free again but it will be a hard struggle to regain freedom.


I am starting to think in terms of liberty not freedom, freedom starting to sound like "duckspeak" to me.

Home of the scared shitless and the land of the TV
I love america
I really do
all the young americans
the generations of vipers
the wobblies and the pinkos
I want put my crazy Jew shoulder to the wheel

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by tinkerjack » May 6th, 2011, 8:27 pm

sorry if I got off on a tangent and hijacked your thread

but dots all connect for me almost

Sometimes I hate it when my dots just kind of dissassociate themselves from each other.

An Arab Spring
Nobody talking about an American Spring yet
I think the folks in the near middle and far east would like to see that.

It is a good thing I don't live in Belgium. If you don't vote there they send the cops around to arrest you. I am dreading the twenty twelve presidential campaign. SOme dark side of me secretely rooting for the Mayan calander.

I take my civic duties seriously
But Henry Miller is having a profound effect on me these days
Such an American voice.

please pardon the ramble
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I used to be smart

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by mnaz » May 6th, 2011, 8:58 pm

yeah jack, at what point does continual war for freedom become slavery in itself?

land of the paranoid and home of the fearful...

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by stilltrucking » May 6th, 2011, 8:58 pm

I been thinking about Patti Smith lyrics today
"freedom redefined"



Yes the information is out there
you can dig it out and spread the word
but "information overwhelms memory"


that is what TV does to many people
shit I wish I could remember who said that
Chompsky maybe

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by stilltrucking » May 6th, 2011, 9:09 pm

"What is needed is recall"

And lots of cash
Obama set to raise one billion bucks for his campaign

I'll probably vote for him again
Or maybe I wont never vote again
My vote is a bullet in the head for somebody

Freedom yes I know what that is

something that corporations have

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by short timer » May 6th, 2011, 9:15 pm

sorry mark my last two posts pretty random I did not even notice your reply

where is red emma when I need her
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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by short timer » May 6th, 2011, 9:36 pm

let me try one more dot
for those folks who continue to see winning in afghanistan as vital to our security...
Yes our fellow Americans, the salt of the earth, good people. All too human

Some I call friends

Have you ever read Human All Too Human
I like the title but I never read it
but I did read
The Human Use of Human Beings

This is the quote I was looking for
Ransom K Fern - Fern is far. In German they call the TV the Fernseher,
and Fern is said to be as well read as Aristotle, but not able to make
any sense out of it. Vonnegut recently argued that TV is a "forgetting
device" because the rate of information coming in is lower than the
rate at which people are forgetful. Of course it's not memory that we
want, but recall.
old Kurt
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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by short timer » May 6th, 2011, 10:52 pm

you show them all the facts why we are there for empire
greed and corruption and they will stop you and say

Freedom isn't free.
but what do you say to the patriots when they say that

We in Afghanistan fighting for freedom.
Protecting our freedom to fight for freedom
and make some folks richer in the process

Yes I can recall the fifties,
I was there
I was not in Italy during the twenties and thirties
but I imagine it was similar to where we are now.

If everything does happen twice, was Italy the farce and us the tragedy
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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by mnaz » October 13th, 2011, 2:20 pm

just noticed some of your later comments here, jack.

re: chomsky ... he was all over the corporate media propaganda con from way back ... the '80s mainly. possibly earlier. the dude's a world-class innovative talent in the linguistics field, and has written over 100 books ! (i need to read some of them). he may be the most-quoted living author in the world ...

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by mnaz » October 17th, 2011, 5:16 pm

here's something that caught my eye today:
"ahmed wali karzai and the rape of afghanistan" (7 / 12 / 11):

http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/20 ... ghanistan/
Ahmed Wali Karzai, the second biggest heroin dealer in the world and NATO’s top man in Kandahar (as reported by Craig Murray ) has been killed by his head of security, Sardar Mohammed, in an operation claimed by the Taliban.

Ahmed Wali Karzai was a kingpin in the Afghan heroin trade, which has been a massively profitable enterprise for those involved – although little of the money is seen in Afghanistan, let alone by the farmers. So the $1 billion a year smuggled out of Afghanistan to Dubai, and reported by the Washington Post, represents just the tip of the iceberg.
Whilst we are pondering NATO’s mission to “protect civilians" . . . it is worth remembering the lessons of Afghanistan and we highly recommend our readers to watch Carmela Baranowskas’ brilliant “Taliban Country,” which points to some of the inherent contradictions in that campaign. The film shows local villagers, forced to flee the country or join the resistance as the US forces ally themselves with rival tribal militia commanders. It also shows a “head of civil affairs” who, despite the billions poured into the country, is unable to muster the resources to save a dying Afghan child, brought to him by a local villager and in need of basic vitamins.

So it would seem that a few questions should be asked of the US enterprise in Afghanistan regarding how the mission is:

* “fighting corruption in the Kabul government” by bribing many of its officials
* “fighting to extend the rule of the national government” by arming and funding its local militia rivals
* “fighting the war on drugs” by arming and supporting the world’s biggest heroin dealers
* “expanding democracy” by supporting a President who stole the election

(etc.) . . .

(the article has a photo of a soldier patrolling a poppy field)

wow . . . you know, i've read a lot of these types of accounts, and similar points of perception by now. quite a few articles / entries. could they all be false? only hysterical leftist ravings? (of course they are ! . . .)

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by mnaz » October 18th, 2011, 3:06 pm

more to chew on ... some views from the inside (from former member of the karzai government, malalai joya, fall, 2010):

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/10 ... worse.html

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/10 ... untry.html
A year after her last visit to Canada, the outspoken former member of Afghanistan's parliament (Joya) risks her life every day by speaking out against the three threats to her people: warlords, the Taliban and outside occupiers. In 2005, she was elected into parliament but kicked out of office in 2007 after criticizing the Karzai government. Known as "the most courageous woman in Afghanistan," Joya has faced at least four assassination attempts.
Joya says that things in Afghanistan "go from worse to worse." Despite official spin, warlords and the Taliban control most of the country. The condition of women is worsening. "Since the implementation of the so-called new strategy of Obama in Afghanistan, the outcome is bloody for people." . . . The Hamid Karzai government, she says, is a "puppet" regime made up of "warlords, druglords, and gangsters." Much of the aid money it receives is funneled directly to the Taliban, by warlords who work both sides of the fence.

There are no simple solutions . . . There may be no solutions at all, but Joya says the first step must be a withdrawal of foreign troops. . . . The removal of foreign troops would create some space for Afghanistan's domestic democratic activists. "It's much easier to fight two enemies instead of three," says Joya.
and, more recently (3 / 26 / 11):

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2011/03 ... istan.html
Warlords and drug lords dominate the Karzai government, Joya said, while U.S. troops kill civilians and rain destruction from the air. Afghan women and democratic people are caught between three enemies: the misogynist Taliban, the fundamentalist and misogynist warlords and Karzai regime, and the U.S. occupation forces. Joya said that the U.S. in Afghanistan for its own regional strategic interests, and not to help the Afghan people. She said that U.S. forces do not plan to leave by 2014, as President Obama has promised . . .
Prof. Chomsky agreed that the U.S. military is not in Afghanistan or other countries for humanitarian reasons or to promote security or democracy, but to advance the interests of a corporate elite that controls U.S. policy. He pointed to the dangerous destabilization of Pakistan that has been driven by U.S. aid to the military there over many decades, by U.S. support of fundamentalist Islam which began under Reagan and continues via Pakistan to this day, and by the U.S. drone attacks in Pakistan which are causing many civilian casualties . . .

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Re: afghanistan links-- taliban, al qaeda & karzai

Post by mnaz » October 18th, 2011, 5:40 pm

and now, some progress (?)

"NATO Assessment Emphasizes Setbacks for Taliban" (10 / 15 / 11):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/world ... fghanistan
NATO officials said Saturday that they had reversed the momentum of the Taliban insurgency as enemy attacks were falling for the first time in years . . . (the assessment) runs counter to dimmer appraisals from some Afghan officials and other international agencies, including the United Nations. With the U. S. preparing to withdraw 10,000 troops by the end of this year and 23,000 more by next October, it raises questions about whether NATO’s claims of success can be sustained.
The coalition’s numbers clash with other assessments, including those of the United Nations, which reported last month that the average number of monthly episodes through August was up 39 percent compared with the same period last year . . . skepticism remains robust among many Afghans after high-profile attacks on the American Embassy last month and the assassination days later of Burhanuddin Rabbani, the leader of the country’s High Peace Council . . . Assassins have claimed 131 victims this year through September, a 61 percent increase from the same period last year, NATO officials said . . . (this has) led some Western officials to suggest that the Taliban may not have been as weakened as coalition officials suggest but have shifted tactics while waiting for the coalition to withdraw most of its troops by the end of 2014.
goes to sustainability of "victory," vs. essentially a permanent occupation under attack ? (from not only the taliban and various insurgents, but even the pakistani military at this point, as the dramatic increase in rocket attacks along the border would suggest) :

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/world ... fghanistan
NATO officials track assassinations but do not include them in their enemy activity numbers . . . And despite NATO data showing a decrease in enemy attacks, civilian casualties, the vast majority of them caused by insurgents, continue to rise, at least by the United Nations’ account. In its midyear report, the United Nations documented 1,462 civilian deaths, a 15 percent increase from the same period in 2010, the war’s worst year for civilian casualties.

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