These are my thoughts on pacifism from my journal, Zen Upchuck, and why it is not possible to be completely pacifistic in this world we live in or may never be possible. Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter as well. Cec and I have a show this weekend and must set up the tent today so I may be slow responding, but I will try to asap.
I wish Cec would go pee BEFORE he went to bed, especially after drinking a big cup of decaf ahead of time. He got up at 2:40 am to pee and then he wants conversation, abet minimal conversation but enough convo to wake me up. Then he goes right back to sleep and my motor is running by then about why I am or am not a pacifist or don't believe we can all be so or something like that... And writing in my head, I start writing before I even have that first morning cup.
There are two very good reasons why I don't believe that we can all get along just fine and dandy in this ole world. I have stated them before in this journal. Number one and number two, Nate and my Daddy. Both were "warriors" and born that way. Just like some humans are born heterosexual or homosexual or transgendered (oops, nature's boo boo and a hard cross to bear) or Chinese or a Pygmy or Downs Syndrome or with a certain color of skin. You are just born that way. Period.
And whether it is because of past lives (heck, I don't know and only know what I think I know about that) or just the way humans are hard wired, it is a mystery but I know for a fact that Nate came into this world as a "warrior". He is absolutely fascinated by old WWII pictures, especially real documentaries, new videos that include the army and or marines or special forces, guns and weapons, fatigues and any trappings of the military, fighting (including wrestlin'), patriotism and flags, pomp and circumstance, big trucks, especially Army trucks, men in uniform, pin up girls, stuff like 'at. Not so interested in the Air Force or the Navy, planes or ships don't do it for him. But hand to hand combat, being a "good guy" are all part of his very nature and I must emphasize, I DID NOT ENCOURAGE THIS ONE BIT!!! In fact, just the opposite. I have to remind him, "we are not going to war, we are going to the grocery store." But you wouldn't know it by the way he dresses when we go out. He likes Ninja's and was quite proficient at numchucks and other weapons of the genre and knew all the kinds and names of those weapons at quite a young age. He knows a lot of stuff (even before he watched it on TV as I was more a "Sesame Street, Electric Company Mom" with the kids) that I have NO IDEA how he knew or knows.
Now Pacifism is fantastic, an ideal we all would certainly strive for! I am more in the footsteps of Gandhi or Martin Luther King than I am a warrior. "Peace baby! Make love, not war" similar to a Benobo ape, a human cousin. But, by golly, the warrior class has existed since the dawn of human kind and you can just look at our other closest cousins the Chimpanzees to affirm this. Groups (or should I say "gangs") of young male Chimps roam their forest homes (what's left of it) beating up on lone members of other troops or they have "wars" with other troops for food, females and stuff. Sound familiar? Inbred. We might believe, due to our "civilized" and "religious" upbringings that this is hooey. It is not.
Just as being attracted to the same sex is not a learned response or something deviant, being a warrior is natural, a part of the nature of the biggest, baddest apes on the planet, us. Not to say that we are all born that way, have that in us. I could no more kill any living thing without a very good reason. But I have killed for reason and sometimes in compassion. And before my frontal lobe kicked in, thoughtlessly. I am not born a warrior but I do have warriors in my family and Nate and my Dad are, were, two of them. They are kind, good-heart-ed men that knew or know that there is bad and evil doings and beings in this world and like our superhero warriors of comic book legend, they are out to right wrongs, "Truth, Justice and the American Way" in their cases.
No more wars is a great ideal but highly unlikely for the human ape. No more fighting, no more evil doings, no more bombings or innocent victims is not in the cards, I don't think or believe. Power, greed, and all of the negative traits of humans will always be human. We haven't evolved to a "cosmic consciousness" of understanding of the connectedness of all, not by a long shot. We have borders, tribes, gangs, fences, "our way or the highway" mentalities, all of us. We are paranoid, afraid, fearful and distrustful of anyone or anything different. That is a survival tactic. Built in. I am the flight, you may be the fight, depending on the circumstances. We die for our beliefs, we do, whether we are of the pacifist bent or warrior class.
Humans will always need judges, police, defenders, those that are brave enough to put their lives on the line for us to maintain any peace. As soon as civilization breaks down in any way, there are those that will take advantage of the lack of controls and go "ape shit"! (And "ape" is a good analogy here.) So I am grateful there are those that are born "warriors" and I am also grateful that my little baby "warrior" ("I am NOT A BABY MOM, I AM A MAN!") cannot own a real gun, will not be on the front lines, will play out his dreams and perhaps past lives in a Downs Syndrome suit. It gives me peace...
I have links on my original. Just click if you so wish on the journal addy below.
Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
Freedom's just another word...
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
soozen, your ruminations here have a lot of truth in them, and as always, your thoughts contain insight for me.
the human animal has always had a (natural) capacity for violence, so it seems, and i suppose one could say that there is (apparently) a "warrior class," or so it seems, although this is more open to debate. but the matter of war involves nurture as well as nature. it's debatable whether the compulsion to make war is wholly "genetic," especially in the context of large-scale, anonymous modern / postmodern warfare, which is much more detached, political and institutional in its makeup.
and then there's the concept of evolution, which (at least as star trek's gene roddenberry saw it) would seem to imply war's gradual phasing out, due to its being at odds with the species' overall survival and welfare.
(although it's funny how, on star trek, after eliminating war on earth, the earthlings promptly get on their star ship and go war with other species out in deep space . . . ha.)
the human animal has always had a (natural) capacity for violence, so it seems, and i suppose one could say that there is (apparently) a "warrior class," or so it seems, although this is more open to debate. but the matter of war involves nurture as well as nature. it's debatable whether the compulsion to make war is wholly "genetic," especially in the context of large-scale, anonymous modern / postmodern warfare, which is much more detached, political and institutional in its makeup.
and then there's the concept of evolution, which (at least as star trek's gene roddenberry saw it) would seem to imply war's gradual phasing out, due to its being at odds with the species' overall survival and welfare.
(although it's funny how, on star trek, after eliminating war on earth, the earthlings promptly get on their star ship and go war with other species out in deep space . . . ha.)
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
well, as I see it, there are people most easily beligerant than others. From my closest people, my mother was an easy beligerant one (the reasons of the beligerance in surface could be so various, that when I was a kid and most of the time suffered from it, I got at the same time a vague suspiciousness about its heaviness, something like... mmm, it can´t be only that way, why so big drama?...). Part of the beligerant game was to tell me that I was sooo different from her, my brother and my father and sooo alike to the "rest" of the family that I almost believed it... (they can be very persuasive! 
). Now, I feel?/imagine? the constant beligerance was very heavy and real for her and that I lived & still live with that (somehow) in the atmosphere , which is the funny part because she´s maybe a peaceful beign or a no-being or another thing now, or maybe it´s just that I only enherited 30% of her beligerance, who knows? 
At school, openly beligerant attitudes are for a lot of kids and parents and in minor level in teachers (for various & some obvious reasons) the first response to the environment (each year a bit more than others). I am sometimes also caught it that... so I have a lot of work at work...
and nowaday wars... well, yeah in a 70% they look -from here- like a robot job for the professional armies but not at all that way for the population of the places where that wars happens... (yeah, I know that sounded horrible...)
by the way, what is a Boloney Boy..??
). Now, I feel?/imagine? the constant beligerance was very heavy and real for her and that I lived & still live with that (somehow) in the atmosphere , which is the funny part because she´s maybe a peaceful beign or a no-being or another thing now, or maybe it´s just that I only enherited 30% of her beligerance, who knows? At school, openly beligerant attitudes are for a lot of kids and parents and in minor level in teachers (for various & some obvious reasons) the first response to the environment (each year a bit more than others). I am sometimes also caught it that... so I have a lot of work at work...
and nowaday wars... well, yeah in a 70% they look -from here- like a robot job for the professional armies but not at all that way for the population of the places where that wars happens... (yeah, I know that sounded horrible...)
by the way, what is a Boloney Boy..??
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
Whew, yesterday was hectic and today will be the same but I will try and take a moment to thank you both for your replies and try to respond.
Mark, warriors fight where they are directed to fight mostly. I grew up in the turbulent times of the Vietnam War which was not a volunteer force and many of my friends, who were pacifistic types, ended up forever scarred by what happened or what they were directed to do.
My Dad fought a totally different war in WWII and was a hero, not spat upon or deemed a "failure" like those in the Vietnam war that followed. That dynamic has a lot to do with the overt patriotism that is shown to our troops today.
You seem to believe, and correct me if I misread you, that the "human animal" can rise above his natural tendency to be aggressive. I believe there are ways of redirecting that aggression in more positive ways than a war, yes I do, but that certainly hasn't been the case in the history of mankind. We have huge capacities for destruction but also huge capacities for creativeness as well. The complexities of war and modern societies technologies have little to do with warriors and more to do with fat cats and greed and those that never fight but send young warriors into the fray as you alluded to. You are talking "apples", I "oranges" if you get my drift...
Warriors will still exist no matter if they are in the football field or boxing ring or on a bucking bull or behind the wheel of a NASCAR going 200 mph or on the plain of our wars. There are certainly women warriors, i.e. Helen of Troy or Amelia Earhart but mostly they are men, I think.
As to whether or not we can get beyond our nature and eliminate wars? Only time will tell...but I don't think we can eliminate our "warriors" or warrior mentality.
Arcadia, I think you are talking more about anger and sadness than warriors when you talk about your Mom? Not all warriors are angry, nope. Many are quite calm and steadfast in the thickest of the fight or situation. The bravest and best are anyway. My references were to our human ape tendencies to have a warrior type, anthropologically speaking.
Thank you for sharing your story and your "fight" to overcome those angry tendencies and to understand the dynamic of your family. I would say, from here, that you are doing a darn good job and you keep on trying to...which is enlightened and admirable.
A Boloney Boy? Bologna, a sandwich meat, is also used in a different translation or context. When we say, "Oh baloney!" It means we don't believe it to be true. Therefore, a Boloney Boy is someone that is full of untruths and I don't think Nate is that... Hence the question mark after that in my title.
Mark, warriors fight where they are directed to fight mostly. I grew up in the turbulent times of the Vietnam War which was not a volunteer force and many of my friends, who were pacifistic types, ended up forever scarred by what happened or what they were directed to do.
My Dad fought a totally different war in WWII and was a hero, not spat upon or deemed a "failure" like those in the Vietnam war that followed. That dynamic has a lot to do with the overt patriotism that is shown to our troops today.
You seem to believe, and correct me if I misread you, that the "human animal" can rise above his natural tendency to be aggressive. I believe there are ways of redirecting that aggression in more positive ways than a war, yes I do, but that certainly hasn't been the case in the history of mankind. We have huge capacities for destruction but also huge capacities for creativeness as well. The complexities of war and modern societies technologies have little to do with warriors and more to do with fat cats and greed and those that never fight but send young warriors into the fray as you alluded to. You are talking "apples", I "oranges" if you get my drift...
Warriors will still exist no matter if they are in the football field or boxing ring or on a bucking bull or behind the wheel of a NASCAR going 200 mph or on the plain of our wars. There are certainly women warriors, i.e. Helen of Troy or Amelia Earhart but mostly they are men, I think.
As to whether or not we can get beyond our nature and eliminate wars? Only time will tell...but I don't think we can eliminate our "warriors" or warrior mentality.
Arcadia, I think you are talking more about anger and sadness than warriors when you talk about your Mom? Not all warriors are angry, nope. Many are quite calm and steadfast in the thickest of the fight or situation. The bravest and best are anyway. My references were to our human ape tendencies to have a warrior type, anthropologically speaking.
Thank you for sharing your story and your "fight" to overcome those angry tendencies and to understand the dynamic of your family. I would say, from here, that you are doing a darn good job and you keep on trying to...which is enlightened and admirable.
A Boloney Boy? Bologna, a sandwich meat, is also used in a different translation or context. When we say, "Oh baloney!" It means we don't believe it to be true. Therefore, a Boloney Boy is someone that is full of untruths and I don't think Nate is that... Hence the question mark after that in my title.
Freedom's just another word...
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
Therefore, a Boloney Boy is someone that is full of untruths and I don't think Nate is that.... Of course not, Soo!. As you say somewhere: "freedom is just another word..." I guess the same could fit with "truth"... 
. So vivid what you tell about Nate appeal with World War II ... when I was a teenager my mother told me that she was sure she was a man in her last life. She told me that she prefered boys games when she was a kid and that when she was a teenager she asked my grandmother to sew her a shirt with color and design similar as the ones the girls in the military service or Israel had (I imagine my grandmother´s face at that moment... but she sew the shirt for her... ) and that she liked to choose the pullovers in men´s stores because the ones for woman in those years were terribly bored in design .. I found it funny, maybe because she was happy while telling that and then she offered to me the two prendas, as something very precious, that were among other old ones. The pullover was blue with beautiful unknown escudos bordados in the front, I like it!, I wore it during a time but the shirt just looked too much... . When later she told me (with too much pain) that the breast cancer she had surely had to be with her somehow not acceptance at all of her feminine side, it didn´t sound funny at all...
I would say, from here, that you are doing a darn good job and you keep on trying to...which is enlightened and admirable. We just do what we can & feel we have to do at some moment, sometimes that´s all, sometimes not! .
. So vivid what you tell about Nate appeal with World War II ... when I was a teenager my mother told me that she was sure she was a man in her last life. She told me that she prefered boys games when she was a kid and that when she was a teenager she asked my grandmother to sew her a shirt with color and design similar as the ones the girls in the military service or Israel had (I imagine my grandmother´s face at that moment... but she sew the shirt for her... ) and that she liked to choose the pullovers in men´s stores because the ones for woman in those years were terribly bored in design .. I found it funny, maybe because she was happy while telling that and then she offered to me the two prendas, as something very precious, that were among other old ones. The pullover was blue with beautiful unknown escudos bordados in the front, I like it!, I wore it during a time but the shirt just looked too much... . When later she told me (with too much pain) that the breast cancer she had surely had to be with her somehow not acceptance at all of her feminine side, it didn´t sound funny at all... I would say, from here, that you are doing a darn good job and you keep on trying to...which is enlightened and admirable. We just do what we can & feel we have to do at some moment, sometimes that´s all, sometimes not! .
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
yes, soozen. vietnam would be a good example of what i was trying to say. "warriors" (like nate?) exist, but war is contrived, arranged.
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
Mark, to follow your comment and what I perceive as your "thinking" I must say that wars happen for many reasons, not all of them are so called "bad" reasons either. There are countless wars that came and arose out of some very good reasoning. Oppression, lack of freedoms, rape and pillaging, the powerful taking advantage of the weak are just some reasons that wars have been fought against some very unreasonable peoples. People that are so power hungry, crazy and out of control that no sanction, no peace accord, nothing can be done to make them behave and act civilized. I do know and agree that many conflicts and wars are as you say, "contrived and arranged" and oh so polictical. That certainly has been your experience, I must guess, in seeing what happened in Iraq and Kuwait, and some other conflicts that have been recently, historically speaking, in the news.
I too do wish that we could exist in a peaceful, united and loving planet but that is not the nature of the planet or the denizens thereof. This is a violent world and we are a violent species, meat eating hunters who, if we don't get what we want, will kill for it. (I am speaking in generalities here but it is true.) I would love to "give peace a chance" to have our warriors fight on the chess board or in a ring or on a soccer field instead of in combat. But that, I think, is naive and doesn't take into account the real nature of nature. This is not a peaceful planet at it's best and at it's worst, is violent and terrifying. Total peace is idealism at it's very best and only achieved on an individual basis with acceptance of this moment and that it is all there really is. I want a universal consciousness where all are in accord and but even then, it could be us against the invaders or aliens from where ever... I can only imagine.
Man, the human ape, with our large brains and creative thinking (and our brains have not changed anthropomorphically speaking since we lived on the savanna or caves or plains of our beginnings to walk upright as homo sapiens) have always been an aggressive species. We fought for territory, for mates, for our families, for our tribe, for our lifestyles, always. You cannot name a time in our brief history on this planet where we didn't war with each other personally or with those we perceived as threatening or weaker. I challenge you to do that for I am always ready to hear any theories or differing opinions as long as they are based on the facts.
Think about some of the wars that have been fought and the reasoning behind them and you will maybe see that all the bullying and oppressions in this world need to be stood up to by those brave souls that fight for right. We can fight for a just cause or flee and pretend that all is not happening in those spheres. A different outcome at Gettysberg for example, would be disastrous for a man's liberty despite the color of his skin. But it happened as it should and I trust that all will happen as it should and that my friend, gives me peace...
I too do wish that we could exist in a peaceful, united and loving planet but that is not the nature of the planet or the denizens thereof. This is a violent world and we are a violent species, meat eating hunters who, if we don't get what we want, will kill for it. (I am speaking in generalities here but it is true.) I would love to "give peace a chance" to have our warriors fight on the chess board or in a ring or on a soccer field instead of in combat. But that, I think, is naive and doesn't take into account the real nature of nature. This is not a peaceful planet at it's best and at it's worst, is violent and terrifying. Total peace is idealism at it's very best and only achieved on an individual basis with acceptance of this moment and that it is all there really is. I want a universal consciousness where all are in accord and but even then, it could be us against the invaders or aliens from where ever... I can only imagine.
Man, the human ape, with our large brains and creative thinking (and our brains have not changed anthropomorphically speaking since we lived on the savanna or caves or plains of our beginnings to walk upright as homo sapiens) have always been an aggressive species. We fought for territory, for mates, for our families, for our tribe, for our lifestyles, always. You cannot name a time in our brief history on this planet where we didn't war with each other personally or with those we perceived as threatening or weaker. I challenge you to do that for I am always ready to hear any theories or differing opinions as long as they are based on the facts.
Think about some of the wars that have been fought and the reasoning behind them and you will maybe see that all the bullying and oppressions in this world need to be stood up to by those brave souls that fight for right. We can fight for a just cause or flee and pretend that all is not happening in those spheres. A different outcome at Gettysberg for example, would be disastrous for a man's liberty despite the color of his skin. But it happened as it should and I trust that all will happen as it should and that my friend, gives me peace...
Freedom's just another word...
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
i don't think this is a matter of who's "right" and "wrong" here. everything you say here makes some sense. but i'll just have to disagree with your basic premise (someone has to !) especially with modern war as it has relatively recently become. there was no reason on god's green earth to fight the vietnam war. a total, tragic waste. and yet, the lying suits in d.c. told us it was essential for our safety. so . . . as i've said before, yes, everything is happening as it should. including myself calling out this barbarous and wasteful institution that the planet basically can ill afford anymore. i'm at peace with that.
ultimately, with the place well filled in now, and with the massive destructive power of our doomsday weapons, we're not going to solve our problems that way. sure, i can be at peace with the warrior class as well (what choice is there?) but i will not worship the institution. and i will not agree that it is intrinsic to our nature. it's certainly not intrinsic to my nature.
i suppose that if myself, or those i love, were directly threatened, i probably would take up arms. but in no way could i support anyone i truly care for being hauled off to go fight, for example . . . some endless oil war to bolster the some oil baron's fiefdom, something like that. again, no offense intended, just expressing a general p.o.v. here. and yes, i can even agree that there have been "necessary" wars in history, if pressed. which . . . should, over time, teach us that there must be a better way (if we are as smart as we say). perhaps the american revolution was "necessary." maybe what's going on in libya is "necessary." but i.m.h.o. there have been far more unnecessary wars than "necessary," and, like i say, aside from the institution's base and barbaric nature, its utility relative to the planet is greatly diminishing. we have some serious issues to work on. (and yes, i should be doing more ! haha).
ultimately, with the place well filled in now, and with the massive destructive power of our doomsday weapons, we're not going to solve our problems that way. sure, i can be at peace with the warrior class as well (what choice is there?) but i will not worship the institution. and i will not agree that it is intrinsic to our nature. it's certainly not intrinsic to my nature.
i suppose that if myself, or those i love, were directly threatened, i probably would take up arms. but in no way could i support anyone i truly care for being hauled off to go fight, for example . . . some endless oil war to bolster the some oil baron's fiefdom, something like that. again, no offense intended, just expressing a general p.o.v. here. and yes, i can even agree that there have been "necessary" wars in history, if pressed. which . . . should, over time, teach us that there must be a better way (if we are as smart as we say). perhaps the american revolution was "necessary." maybe what's going on in libya is "necessary." but i.m.h.o. there have been far more unnecessary wars than "necessary," and, like i say, aside from the institution's base and barbaric nature, its utility relative to the planet is greatly diminishing. we have some serious issues to work on. (and yes, i should be doing more ! haha).
Last edited by mnaz on May 31st, 2011, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
What exactly do you think my premise is may I ask...? And war was always modern for the times it was in...i.e. the cannon of the Civil War. The barbarisms of ancient warfare have given way to our so called modern technologies where fewer men or women are actually killed or maimed in conflicts.
If all the things that we love about this planet disappear because of us, sadly, Nature (as we call it) will adjust and transition into something else. We aren't the first species to rule this world and I doubt we will be the last. Something else will climb out of the ooze or fire or flood or meteorite explosion or nuclear holocaust or whatever our end may turn out to be and take over. The laws of physics dictate that you cannot destroy energy (us in this instance), it just transforms.
May I ask how active are you in your local political scene? Do you volunteer? Attend protests demonstrations? Put yer money where yer mouth is? That is how one makes a difference. On your street, your block, your city council, letting them know how you feel about what you call "this barbarous and wasteful institution" or are you like many that just like to complain but do nothing to effect change? I repeat, that is how people make a difference, by living what they believe, what they are passionate about, in a concrete way. Everything is local, it starts from the roots up, from the seed of change, those beliefs that things can be better and making them so. If more people would do that, this world would be a far better place for not only our species but all living things.
This earth has had much, much worse scenarios than our measly ministrations and may still have a few tricks up the sleeve. In the meantime, get self sufficient, grow your own, make your own and by gum, strive to be happy and don't live on the dark side is my motto.
If all the things that we love about this planet disappear because of us, sadly, Nature (as we call it) will adjust and transition into something else. We aren't the first species to rule this world and I doubt we will be the last. Something else will climb out of the ooze or fire or flood or meteorite explosion or nuclear holocaust or whatever our end may turn out to be and take over. The laws of physics dictate that you cannot destroy energy (us in this instance), it just transforms.
May I ask how active are you in your local political scene? Do you volunteer? Attend protests demonstrations? Put yer money where yer mouth is? That is how one makes a difference. On your street, your block, your city council, letting them know how you feel about what you call "this barbarous and wasteful institution" or are you like many that just like to complain but do nothing to effect change? I repeat, that is how people make a difference, by living what they believe, what they are passionate about, in a concrete way. Everything is local, it starts from the roots up, from the seed of change, those beliefs that things can be better and making them so. If more people would do that, this world would be a far better place for not only our species but all living things.
This earth has had much, much worse scenarios than our measly ministrations and may still have a few tricks up the sleeve. In the meantime, get self sufficient, grow your own, make your own and by gum, strive to be happy and don't live on the dark side is my motto.
Freedom's just another word...
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
Whoops, you changed your post after I replied to the first... I need to go back and read.
Freedom's just another word...
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
i basically agree with most of what you said. i have been "active" (protesting), but not enough. part of the problem on the federal level is that the R and D capitalist parties are so whored out. both sides. (the R side is worse). and yes, i suppose one could say that our corporate consumerism is much to blame for this. i know no one wants to think about d.c. corruption, a most unpleasant subject, but . . . and "happy?" sure . . . just outspoken on some things . . . and if you think i'm bad like that, go back and read some of the posts by "eyelidlessness" from a few years back. haha.. sorry for adding onto my post.
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
Okay, I have "read" your second reply and to me (no offense either) you seem to be stuck in the politics of your perceptions of modern war which actually was not at all what I was talking about. And no, you are certainly not of the "warrior class" because you know it, you stated it here but that doesn't mean that overall, our species is peaceful and totally loving because that is just not the case. Perhaps, just perhaps, we may have the opportunity to evolve to that but we are not nearly there. Not even close. For example, I live on the edge of a war right now that is more violent and more ridiculous (and more deaths) that any war in our modern history and it has to do with our (America's) insatiable appetite for getting high. Makes no sense to me. None but that is a fact. I see some solutions but it won't stop the daily killing, daily, every single day, bodies are buried in mass graves, headless corpses are left in the streets, people are run out of business or worse because they don't pay the gangs to stay in business. The streets of Juarez are empty, bars are closed, the music is gone, the life and laughter and color is faded. And why gangs? Why conflict? What cause? It is our nature and we cannot separate man from nature, we just have to separate our senselessness from our sense and that is done individually.
And as I stated before, Nathan is always going to be a warrior, love guns and the armaments of war and he came that way to me. I didn't create that urge in him. That is merely a fact. I was glad I could keep him locked up, away from the wars he loves and found his so called disability a blessing in that way.
And as I stated before, Nathan is always going to be a warrior, love guns and the armaments of war and he came that way to me. I didn't create that urge in him. That is merely a fact. I was glad I could keep him locked up, away from the wars he loves and found his so called disability a blessing in that way.
Freedom's just another word...
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
http://soozen.livejournal.com/
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
Mark, if you are a history buff, as I am, you may know that your feelings about the so called system are nothing new and have been expressed since politics began. We are flawed surely but the beauty of the whole thing is "this too shall pass..." I don't want to go back and read anyone else's posts or their rants about politics, I swear, it is not something that interests me all that much unless we are speaking in a historical and not hysterical sense. Or should I say anthropological sense. All that ranting and raving serves no purpose for me at this time in my life. I suppose some, including my mate, get a blast out of politics but I find it pretty mundane and boring mostly or laughable. I would rather watch something else and expand my horizons or the boundaries of my mind and not go where some of those ego maniacs do. I vote, I make informed choices, I petition for things I believe in, I donate time and what little money I can and that is about all I can do. Otherwise, it is a waste of time but that is ME, just me and the way I feel. Knock yourself out if it floats your boat.mnaz wrote:i basically agree with most of what you said. i have been "active" (protesting), but not enough. part of the problem on the federal level is that the R and D capitalist parties are so whored out. both sides. (the R side is worse). and yes, i suppose one could say that our corporate consumerism is much to blame for this. i know no one wants to think about d.c. corruption, a most unpleasant subject, but . . . and "happy?" sure . . . just outspoken on some things . . . and if you think i'm bad like that, go back and read some of the posts by "eyelidlessness" from a few years back. haha.. sorry for adding onto my post.
Freedom's just another word...
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Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
good point about the gangs. utterly horrific. yes, violence and conflict is in the nature of some, maybe all. i mean, even i've been in a fight before, back in grade school (i didn't start it). so if we're "talking around each other" here, sorry, but to me you can't just separate out the politics when talking about war, not if politicians involve us in war for political reasons, with the president and senators (and citizens) running around saying things like, "war is inevitable" and such.
i know there were a few warriors who refused to participate in bush's invasion and occupation of iraq (and were locked up, i think). in that sense, war (or at least that war) was hardly intrinsic to their nature. that's what i was trying to get at, though as i say, i do agree with many of your observations. the planet may well kick us to the curb in some future era-- i would prefer that we don't "off ourselves," however . . .
and yet, your take is valid too. warrior types tend to be, well . . . "pre-disposed" to war (for lack of a better way to put it). hence, a bit of a conundrum...
i know there were a few warriors who refused to participate in bush's invasion and occupation of iraq (and were locked up, i think). in that sense, war (or at least that war) was hardly intrinsic to their nature. that's what i was trying to get at, though as i say, i do agree with many of your observations. the planet may well kick us to the curb in some future era-- i would prefer that we don't "off ourselves," however . . .
and yet, your take is valid too. warrior types tend to be, well . . . "pre-disposed" to war (for lack of a better way to put it). hence, a bit of a conundrum...
Re: Pacifism or Boloney Boy?
and yes, in terms of what i'm saying, maybe our corporatist state (which many smart folks argue is simply the updated version of legit. fascism) is more to the point. it's so pervasive now, and of course goes far beyond the military-industrial complex (though that's a biggie). god only knows how poisons i've eaten, part due to the e.p.a and f.d.a. being sold out long ago. and those nuke plants near major fault lines in california? yikes. yes, grow your own. words of wisdom . . .
ah, but i shan't dwell on it, i suppose . . .
ah, but i shan't dwell on it, i suppose . . .
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