On the Debt Problem

[mtmynd]

On the Debt Crisis

U.S. National Debt is approximately $14.6 Trillion. The total U.S. Debt is approximately $54.9 Trillion (includes household, business, state and local governments, financial institutions and the Federal Debt - facts according to the Federal Reserve). Let's take the $14.6 Trillion which looked at in another way is $14,600 Billion. Our entire National Debt is $54,900 Billion.

Who among us can seriously believe there is any way in our lifetime or the lifetimes of our grandchildren and the lifetimes of our great-great grandchildren, this ridiculous amount of monies will EVER be repaid? Seriously. If we as a country began today, in today's political climate, were to pay every penny that we own in wealth, property, investments or what ever means we have to remain as civilized and free as we (think) we are, we, this current generation of adults, could not make a dent in our collective debt without every business and every financial aid from counties, cities, states and/or the Feds coming to an abrupt halt, i.e. cease to exist. Does this sound like anything anyone of us would like to see happen, not only to our country, but to the nations that we deal with daily to provide goods and services that we need?

But yet we actually are under the belief if we bend and capitulate to the grand ideas put forth by our politicians and army of economists, by the leadership of our financial institutions... that we HAVE to pay off our debt or the world as we know it will forever be changed and that change will be for the worst.

IMHO, today after listening for weeks to the National debate over the debt problem, it is the voices of the mega-wealthy, those rascal 2%'ers and their followers who stand the most to lose in the attempt to balance the budget and drive down this unreal debt. Do any of the readers here have as much to financially lose in comparison to the Ultra-Wealthy?

I believe that it is the wealth of the mega-rich, not only in the U.S. but worldwide, are shaking in the Florsheim's (do they still have these?) , worried about their wealth and what is going to happen to it should the reality and truth of the problem come forth - a drastic change in our economic system is in order. We must remember that it is not us, the 95%'ers that lead this country (and world) into the massive debt we are now arguing about. Sure there is the small group of 'us' that made bad decisions to buy homes or other high-priced goods knowing we may not be able to pay the loans off, but I will argue that the problems to that fall square into the laps of the banks/mortgage companies who failed to invest with open eyes in those few borrowers.

We can certainly be suspicious of those same banks and financial institutions to protect their wealth even at the cost of the general public... again should the reality win out (which it will).

There will eventually be some larger social system come into play to keep the millions among us pacified. Whatever the economic system arises to change the old system that we've been used to having throughout our lives, no longer fits the bill. There are far too many people in the U.S. (and globally) for the current economic system to provide for. It is either that or all prices would have to dramatically be reduced which would include all goods and services so there would be enough monies to provide for all to have a civil society, one that is healthy and educated.

Karl Marx, interestingly enough for today's times, stated that there can not be Socialism without Capitalism being the the first step, with pure Communism following Socialism. Whether Marx was a madman or a genius whose time may be coming, I believe many of us (and that would include economists within) certainly see the Debts, both Nationally and globally, are unsustainable utilizing our present day Capitalist system to provide as it once did so well. We are outgrowing (or have outgrown) that system IF we, the people require a civilization built upon what Capitalism has created.



Cecil
7.31.11

[stilltrucking]

Florsheim's

Oh yes, they still make them in China.

[mtmynd]

China, the world's oldest civilization (or is it India..?), now responsible for the world's material needs because they do it more efficiently and less expensively than it is possible anywhere else. Isn't the bottom line the goal of any business? Profit is King and every generation has it's ruling elite... China may well be the King's of the 21st Century. Time well tell, as it always has... revealing Truth incrementally, as we need are able to handle Truth.

[btw: China's attempt at Socialism produced an economic system that required military force and cruelty on a large scale. It failed because the people (it's always the people), could not live according to a dogma or an ideology that stifled the desires and imaginations that freedom offers. To quell the most populated Nation in the world, it's leadership had to bend the rules or face rebellion on a grand scale. The people, once their eyes were opened to the vast, modern world of today with it's technologies and architectural wonders, with it's connection to this time, this future we are now developing daily out of desire and need, require much more that their brand of Chinese Socialism (a misnomer as is Communism), could provide. To pay for the changes the people demanded required monies on a large scale. This of course, required jobs on a large scale that provided enough income to pacify the people's desires. The Chinese powers that be now, after compromising their ideological rulebooks from yesterday, now do the majority of manufacturing in the world with a workforce larger than any other country. Their brand of Socialism had to be compromised in order for their people to grow with the times... something our Republican leadership evidently refuses to believe in, as if compromise threatens ideologies that they unerringly believe in, much to the dismay of the majority of Americans.]

C-

[Arcadia]

well, you need at least two parts for a debt..., at macro-scale it seems it´s difficult to identify them sometimes...
I listened that today you were formally saved from default by yourselves... it sounds curious!!!!!!!
& China... I don´t know... I don´t want Linfens near...

[mtmynd]

And the dreaded credit rating as been lowered from an impeccable AAA to a questionable AA+ by Standard & Poor (whose authority to do so is under fire).

I'm amused that the Congresswoman, Michelle Bachmann, is calling for the resignation of Treasury Secretary Geitner while the amazingly disliked House Speaker, John Boehner said Democrats "who run Washington remain unwilling to make the tough choices required to put America on solid ground." Brilliant comeback from these two slugs who have as much credibility to speak about the financial situation as Mickey and Minnie Mouse.

As I've written, the country's financial problem is humongous... 54.9 TRILLION U.S. DOLLARS which includes all the debt we have hanging over our collective heads. Getting rid of Timothy Geitner would be more foolish than getting rid of Boehner and Bachmann, (which hopefully will happen in the next election). It does our country little good to have people, especially our elected officials parroting each others words and criticisms of the very leadership they, themselves are involved with. As the current polls reveal an amazing 82% of Americans dislike Congress... that is more than 8 out of 10 people have no respect towards these very people that were elected to go to Washington and do what's best for our country. The main problem we have here is the main problem that has always plagued hu'manity - an inability to communicate honestly, clearly and peacefully. Criticisms that offer no alternatives are a totally useless waste of precious breath. But critics are known to take the easy route if they are incapable of offering any suggestions, ideas or thoughts to better that which they are criticizing.

Today's situation is unlike any we've lived through before, with the "we" meaning those of us who are witness to these tumultuous times - from the unbelievable weather occurrences in the U.S. and elsewhere (and I'm sure we haven't seen the worst yet), to the ridiculous situation of all our governing bodies from local, state and Federal levels.... toss that into our own everyday problems of worries about jobs, our savings, our once assured of stability of our future... our American Dreams that we all have had, and we have turmoil like we've never lived with in our lives... this is serious stuff.

We have created our own problems. Is today's warnings a yin/yang duality that tells us, we created/we destroy..? Capitalism, this hyper-capitalism we've seen grow up around us where literally everything has a price, is killing us as a country and has a believer in the system which got us here in the first place. For the most part the journey was a wonderful assist for America which undoubtedly was the initial reason so many people came to our shores - to partake of our collective wealth through work, inventiveness, creativity, intelligence and more work. This was the American Dream that peoples from around the globe desired if not for themselves, certainly their children. America became the greatest and most powerful Nation the world has ever known through an economic system called Capitalism. But somewhere in our history, not so long ago, this hunger for money swallowed logic, good will and honesty. The hunger of greed cares not what it consumes as long as the hunger is satisfied. Hyper-capitalism grew out of the enormous greed that our system allowed to grow. It consumed our government and our leadership. Hyper-Capitalism promised some of it's wealth to 'trickle down' to the rest of us. It is now apparent this "trickle" is hardly enough to live on for the commoners amongst us... that unique and special strata of our society we proudly called 'the middle class' - not poor by any means and not super wealthy either... a contented middle ground from which so much of our history sprang forth and fed our bellies and imagination, fulfilling our needs and occasional desires. What many may call "a good life."

Is that "good life" rapidly disappearing before our eyes? I fear so as I watch anxiously the country battling amongst ourselves, desperate for answers, looking for leadership that cares about not the 2%'ers but the rest of us - that vast majority of 98%'ers that is the backbone of the country that relies on honesty and common sense.

The majority of the 98% amongst us have our own debts and obligations just like our governments, local, state and Federal, but our debts have collectively choked our once cherished lifestyles. We can longer live with the same level of hyper-capitalism that hypnotized us in the 1990's and early 2000's... the days when we knew in our hearts that we had far too much credit and far too little hope of ever paying it off... but we, the collective mindset of the country, rode the pony with blind enjoyment knowing we were not alone.

We're not alone in our debts either in our country or Europe and parts of South America, with the Orient's confidence beginning to crack as the money problem continues to spread, country by country.

What will arise from the ashes that once were dreams so great that the dreams themselves ran our lives and we allowed it. But like all dreams, we must awaken to reality. Hu'mans are creative. The first words of the Bible, Genesis, reads "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Creativity is hu'man... we can and must (in very short time) create an economic system that once again embraces all people for the common good. Without it we are slaves to masters who cannot be trusted. Simple.

[enough]

[Arcadia]

I liked this Osvaldo Bayer´s article on today´s pagina/12 contratapa:

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/contr ... 08-06.html

[stilltrucking]

From the article Arcadia posted

"capitalism solves everything by himself."

Yes Berlusconi is right capitalism solves everything. There are plenty of jobs in the USA, you just have to go to prison to get one.

Cutting and Pasting

History of ALEC and Prison Labor

Prison labor has already started to undercut the business of corporations that don’t use it. In Florida, PRIDE has become one of the largest printing corporations in the state, its cheap labor having a significant impact upon smaller local printers. This scenario is playing out in states across the country. In addition to Florida's forty-one prison industries, California alone has sixty. Another 100 or so are scattered throughout other states. What's more, several states are looking to replace public sector workers with prison labor. In Wisconsin Governor Walker’s recent assault on collective bargaining opened the door to the use of prisoners in public sector jobs in Racine, where inmates are now doing landscaping, painting, and other maintenance work. According to the Capitol Times, “inmates are not paid for their work, but receive time off their sentences.” The same is occurring in Virginia, Ohio, New Jersey, Florida and Georgia, all states with GOP Assembly majorities and Republican governors. Much of ALEC’s proposed labor legislation, implemented state by state is allowing replacement of public workers with prisoners.

“It’s bad enough that our companies have to compete with exploited and forced labor in China,” says Scott Paul Executive Director of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, a coalition of business and unions. “They shouldn’t have to compete against prison labor here at home. The goal should be for other nations to aspire to the quality of life that Americans enjoy, not to discard our efforts through a downward competitive spiral.”

Alex Friedmann, associate editor of Prison Legal News, says prison labor is part of a “confluence of similar interests” among politicians and corporations, long referred to as the “prison industrial complex.” As decades of model legislation reveals, ALEC has been at the center of this confluence. “This has been ongoing for decades, with prison privatization contributing to the escalation of incarceration rates in the US,” Friedmann says. Just as mass incarceration has burdened American taxpayers in major prison states, so is the use of inmate labor contributing to lost jobs, unemployment and decreased wages among workers—while corporate profits soar.

http://www.thenation.com/article/162478 ... ison-labor

[Arcadia]

I don´t know..., AAA seeing with benevolent eyes looks like alcaline batteries to me...

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/econo ... 08-09.html

[stilltrucking]

No matter what they say the rating agencies, [we] have always been and will be a AAA country.

Obama said in the article arcadia posted

Yes we may be be AA+ in credit
but thank god we are still AAA+ in war
We can still afford another war in Libya

[stilltrucking]

It is all Obama's fault
don't blame the rich
Obama inherited a Triple A credit rating from Bush

I heard that on Fox News the other day

[mnaz]

raise taxes on the wealthy.

even warren buffet said so. heard him on the radio a few months ago.

[Arcadia]

raise taxes for the wealthy in a capitalist country sounds so logic & so common sense, come on...!
& for all the world... I guess to consume & produce in a more creative, less-contaminante and solidary way could help all of us now & in the future!

[mtmynd]

Common sense... but who in Congress has any?

As long as the Republican's bow to Grover Norquist instead of the people for whom they were elected, raising taxes ain't gonna happen.

[Arcadia]

if the Congress is particularly felt dense at the moment, does an USA president have the possibility to call to a citizen´s plesbicito about an issue he considers vital for his country ? I mean, can Obama call for a plesbicito about to rise or not the taxes or whatever..? (no idea, really ). Maybe that recurso can also prove if there is a real dis-connection between representantes & representados in a more direct way... it can be interesting!!

[Ronken]

Thanks for sharing with us your wisdom.