obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

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mnaz
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obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by mnaz » August 2nd, 2011, 12:27 pm

http://gowans.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/ ... t-for-who/

if anyone cares to, i'd like to read people's thoughts on this rather blunt editorial.

obviously, the editorial is written from a lefty p.o.v., so "worse" and "better" have subjectivity, as in all political commentary. as for me, i see myself more toward the "center" (whatever that means anymore), though leaning (slightly?) left, more often than not.

as people here already know, i've maintained for awhile that the g.o.p. had long ago gone around the bend ... escalated their massive sellout to incredible heights, surreal at times, and thus obama was a no-brainer in 2012. i basically "have no choice."

no choice? well ... exactly, according to this editorial. it even goes so far as to suggest mccain would have had a similar presidency (without such things as pretending to pass "health care reform"), and possibly wouldn't have gotten away with the level of war escalation in afghanistan and libya that obama did (with almost nil protest). i find it a pretty depressing editorial . . . but is this guy telling it like it is?
The president has failed his liberal Democratic supporters and capitulated to the Republicans. Here’s their charge sheet:

Obama failed to end the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy, failed to create a government-run health insurance system, and failed in his negotiations with Congress on raising the debt-ceiling to shelter Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. And in a yet-to-be approved deal to avoid default of the US government’s debt, Obama agreed to automatic cuts in social programs and defense spending if a bipartisan panel fails to agree on a deficit-reduction package, or its recommendations are rejected by Congress. Conspicuously missing are tax increases on the wealthy as one of the automatic triggers. The ultra-wealthy will continue to avoid paying their share of taxes, loaning their spare cash, instead, to Washington, to be repaid in full with interest — an attractive deal for the rich, a swindle for everyone else. The upward redistribution of wealth continues as strongly as it ever did under Bush, the only difference being that Bush admitted the ultra-wealthy were his “base,” while Obama doesn’t.

On foreign policy, Obama’s record is no better. He has failed to close Guantanamo Bay, stepped up the war in Afghanistan, extended the war to Yemen, and wages war in Libya without Congressional authorization — which is only slightly worse than the fact that he’s waging war on Libya. All this means that for liberal Democrats, Obama is a clear disappointment. But that sure doesn’t mean they won’t vote for him. And Obama knows it. Liberal Democrats, progressives and even Communists are so terrified of the Republican Party right-wing, that they’ll vote for anyone to the left of it, even if “to the left”, means a long way toward right.
i think this guy's take is a bit extreme. libya was a NATO mission, not strictly a u.s. one. (or so we've been told). and the disturbing "automatic cuts" to gov't. programs apply to military spending too. (so they say).

but it does seem as if the 2-party system is increasingly meaningless, under the domination of large corporate money and influence ... (or was i just not paying attention for years?)

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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by stilltrucking » August 2nd, 2011, 2:24 pm

Almost anyone would have been better than Bush.

I like this editorial by Maureen Dowd a lot The emohasis are mine.
Sorry about the centering I don't understand why all my posts are centered.
__________________________________________________________________


SO I was chatting with Chris Coons, the new Democratic senator from Delaware who had a rare win over the Tea Party when he beat loony Christine “I’ve Dabbled in Witchcraft but I Am Not a Witch” O’Donnell in the midterms.

Coons is a smart guy who’s alarmed at finding himself in a vicious combat zone that makes “Shark Week” look like a guppy party.
He said he felt as if he were in “an alternative universe.” He wonders if the president, rather than using an analogy about late credit card payments, should explain that failing to raise the debt ceiling is like the nation’s refusing to pay its mortgage. And he glumly noted that there would be a “bouquet of blame” for everyone if Congress and the White House allowed the country to “Titanic.”
“You know,” I told the suffering senator, “there is an easy solution.”
He looked up hopefully.
“Witchcraft,” I beamed. “Too bad we don’t have a senator who knows some spells.”
Ancient incantations and eye of newt — not that Newt — would be the only way to conjure up a less embarrassing group of leaders.
The world is watching in fearful — and sometimes gleeful — fascination as the Tea Party drives a Thunderbird off the cliff with the president and speaker of the House strapped in the back. The Dow is hiding under the bed with a glass of single malt. Can it get more excruciating? Apple has more cash than the U.S. government.
Amid the chilling anarchy, there’s not a single strong leader to be seen — not even a misguided one. All the leaders are followers. You have to wonder if President Obama at some level doesn’t want to lead. Maybe he just wants to be loved. The citizens of this country tremble at the thought that these are the people governing them. Should we stick our money under our mattresses? It’s not only the economy that gets nourished by confidence; it’s also politics.
The maniacal Tea Party freshmen are trying to burn down the House they were elected to serve in. It turns out they wanted to come inside to get a blueprint of the historic building to sabotage it.
Like gargoyles on the Capitol, the adamantine nihilists are determined to blow up the country’s prestige, their party and even their own re-election chances if that’s what it takes. (Many are worried about primary races with even more dogmatic challengers, which is a truly scary thought.) If they can drag President Obama off his pedestal, even better. They think he looks down on them and sneers at their values.
Democratic lawmakers worry that the Tea Party freshmen have already “neutered” the president, as one told me. They fret that Obama is an inept negotiator. They worry that he should have been out in the country selling a concrete plan, rather than once more kowtowing to Republicans and, as with the stimulus plan, health care and Libya, leading from behind. As one Democratic senator complained: “The president veers between talking like a peevish professor and a scolding parent.” (Not to mention a jilted lover.) Another moaned: “We are watching him turn into Jimmy Carter right before our eyes.”
Obama’s “We must lift ourselves to a higher place” trope doesn’t work on this rough crowd. If somebody at dinner is about to kill you, you don’t worry about his table manners.
More and more, 2008 looks like the tulip mania. When Obama came before the cameras Friday to say that “any solution to avoid default must be bipartisan,” many Democrats wish he had just gone all unilateral and taken Bill Clinton’s advice to invoke the 14th Amendment. They yearned to see the president beat the political suicide bombers over the head with the Constitution. Impeaching a constitutional lawyer for saving the economy would be an even more difficult sell than impeaching a rogue for fibbing about a dalliance.
The Gingrich revolution pulled Republicans to the right of the Reagan revolution and the Tea Party revolution pulled Republicans to the right of the Gingrich revolution. The difference, though, is existentially striking: The Reagan and Gingrich forces wanted a leaner government, but they still believed in government.
The sighing, spectral Harry Reid does not look up to the task of taking on the freshman wolfen.
The laconic president emerges from the sidelines periodically to warn about economic default, but we’re already in political default.
Consider what the towel-snapping Tea Party crazies have already accomplished. They’ve changed the entire discussion. They’ve neutralized the White House. They’ve whipped their leadership into submission. They’ve taken taxes and revenues off the table. They’ve withered the stock and bond markets. They’ve made journalists speak to them as though they’re John Calhoun and Alexander Hamilton.
Obama and John Boehner have been completely outplayed by the “hobbits,” as The Wall Street Journal and John McCain called them. What if this is all a cruel joke on us? What if the people who hate government are good at it and the people who love government are bad at it?
A version of this op-ed appeared in print on July 31, 2011, on page SR11 of the New York edition with the headline: Tempest in A Tea Party.

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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by mtmynd » August 2nd, 2011, 2:47 pm

it's all going to blow up or evaporate all too soon. there is no compromising anyone at this point unless it appeases the radical right who seem to be in charge despite their all too naivete at anything approaching a democratic government... and "we the People" seem to eat every scrap of crap they put out to us. Go figure.

Obama? I wouldn't doubt he would just as soon turn this government over to anyone who wants it at this point.... how many times has he been stopped by the Republican followers of the (so-called) Tea Party? It gets old for me and it has to get old with Obama.

Our leadership is scared shitless of America having to become much more socialist in order to survive. Is there any other reason that our country's minorities (blacks and Hispanics and women and their children who aren't radical right wing believers) are in far worse economic times than we've experienced in years. It seems from those recent figures, the far right radicals are all white masters with anyone who has no voice will bow down to them for any work at all.... if this horrible game continues playing out with a Congress who is either blind to the truth or so plugged into the Right Wing propaganda machine, remaining obedient to their masters.

There is no economic crisis among the elite white powers that are firmly entrenched in our (their?) political system. Our voices continue being drowned out, including the ability of Obama for the past two years.
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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by mnaz » August 2nd, 2011, 4:57 pm

thanks for your replies jack, cecil... i'll respond more completely later on, but for now i wanted to post another article i stumbled on today...

from a 6/13/11 article in "the curious capitalist" (TIME online), titled
"will obama's campaign financing kill financial reform?":

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com ... al-reform/
Congress passed the Dodd-Frank financial overhaul bill nearly a year ago, but actual reforms to the financial world are barely in play. most of the 387 mandated rules haven't been squared away by the agencies responsible for fleshing out the specifics; a mere 21 rules are already set. And as of April, not one of the regulators had met its Dodd-Frank-related deadlines scheduled for that month.

Obama ... seems evermore content to let Republican stallers have their way now that campaign season is in play. The foot-dragging isn't just putting reforms on hold; it's washing them all away. In the absence of strong-willed regulators, lobbyists have been streaming in. ...even the names rumored to be Obama's upcoming regulatory picks are more in Wall Street's camp. Martin Gruenberg, the likely pick as new chair of the FDIC, has been pegged as more "conciliatory" than strong-willed consumer advocate...
All this adds up to a much softer approach just as the real moves on financial reform are finally in play. The White House may view the detente with Wall Street as a way to push through stronger reforms in a second term. But feeble rules made now won't be easy to reverse.
i remember the list of "240 things obama has accomplished" that circled cyberspace for awhile, and it's true, obama's team knocked off lots of relatively minor progressive-sounding items in fairly efficient short order, which is commendable. much "better than bush."

but here's the thing. on the bigger issues, where progressives perhaps expected obama to do some sustained heavy lifting for meaningful change and show strong leadership and a sense of urgency, has he made a credible effort? financial reform is a good example ... unlike the health care debacle, it was actually good legislation, and overdue, and it got passed. great! . . . but where is the follow through?

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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by mtmynd » August 2nd, 2011, 5:38 pm

Valid questions all. I can only speculate what is going on in the mind of Obama, just like anyone else who wonders about the man. Some believe that he is a brilliant man who is playing his Presidency in a chess-like fashion - each move carefully thought out before the move. Perhaps he is... I for one would like to think this n(and even do with some actions of his). Others think he is O'dumbo, the man who is running the country into the ground, clueless as to what he is doing, playing by the seat of his pants. This I don't believe at all. Listen to his opposition and you'd believe that he is in partnership with Beelzebub, himself... a communist, socialist no good who cares little about his country and would just as soon see America crumble like Feta cheese. It is those folks who give that impression freely to anyone that listens are the ones I am concerned about - they are speaking about their own agendas but using Obama as the messenger. A convoluted condemnation of what Obama really is under his calm demeanor and logic-seeking vision of where the country must go in these difficult times.

In observing Obama these past few years (before and after his Presidency), I've been taken by his "coolness" that rarely dissipates... an aura that transcends the common man. Evil? Not at all. I truly believe that his opposition is his worst enemy... those that realize the man's intelligence and his ability to get to the heart of problems. They (Republican leadership) are very worried about the man. (witness what Sen McConnell said: "My one goal is to see Obama becomes a one term President." This, only months after Obama's swearing in.) If his opposition were truly honorable men, they would not show this fear of the man... he would be just another politician like themselves who is easily duped if not bought out. I don't (yet) see that is the case with this man.

Obama is playing the game with the pieces he has in order to win the game. It is the most powerful game in history - the Presidency of the most powerful Nation in the world (whether we swallow that or not is irrelevant. it is an historical fact). This is not a game for weak or foolish if those who run for office and win. The vast majority (if not all) want their term(s) to be written in the history books as largely successful and a benefit for both the country and the Democratic world we live in. Obama recognizes this and would be foolish to let these extremes which have littered his path these past two and half years interfere with that goal. I'm betting he will win the game despite his enemies, which are also extremely powerful and willing to do anything to upset his Presidency. Should that happen, I fear we will have lost our country and all that it has stood for in it's youthful 235 years.
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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by Atehequa » August 2nd, 2011, 7:26 pm

Change we can believe in
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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by Arcadia » August 2nd, 2011, 8:30 pm

if anyone cares to, i'd like to read people's thoughts on this rather blunt editorial. yeah, it sounds healthy, sure you´ll find revealing fascetas & it can also be painful... sometimes to listen to the others is not easy... best wishes! :lol: :)

In relation to Latin America I think Obama is a sad figure... and as I see from here, in relation to USA in a more internal way, the only-Obama-thing can´t be a big difference itself ... maybe it´s a good time for all of you to take the streets...! (take it metaforically if you want! :wink: )

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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by saw » August 3rd, 2011, 6:14 pm

I share everyone's concern for the situation we face for our future given the new debt plan just ratified and signed into law......for quite some time I have been a big proponent of independent media...radio, tv, the internet, newspapers, magazines... for without independence, we are stuck with the agendas of corporate owned "news" agencies that openly attempt each day to spin the facts in one direction....there is no longer any objectivity on the network news, and stations like Fox have been exposed by former journalist that were forced to quit or were fired for being to liberal or too centrist...

having said that I strongly urge anyone concerned with getting an alternative to corporate dominated information to research the wealth of knowledge available to those that seek it......if you are interested in buying a new car, and an ad comes on ABC news and says Joe Blow makes the best cars in the world, do you run out and buy one....of course not....an informed consumer will gather as much information from as many diverse locations as possible in order to make an informed decision......and a car at this point may be secondary to the collapse of the planet by powerful rich people that seem to be indifferent
to widespread misery

I don't think this can be overstated.....much of what we once trusted has been corrupted to levels most simply cannot fathom...

back to the debt issues raised in this thread.....for a very articulate discussion of this, please google Democracy Now's program today ( August 3rd)....Amy Goodman's guests are a congress member from my state of Maryland, Donna Edwards, and Dean Baker, the co-director of The Center for Economic Research and Policy ......it is a sobering clear assessment of how we got here and what is likely ahead .....I usually stream the show at my convenience......headlines are first, but you can simply move ahead to the discussion......thank goodness we still have places to get another viewpoint.....I am a big fan of Ms. Edwards, that was one of 6 Democrats to vote against this new agreement......take care....Steve
If you do not change your direction
you may end up where you are heading

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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by stilltrucking » August 4th, 2011, 9:18 am

Some random thoughts on the media
"Workers must unite and seize the means of seduction" Karl or Groucho I think.
"All I know is what I see and hear on TV" Will Rogers paraphrased
I saw that Amy Goodman show, most of it anyway.
I wanted Obama to plead the 14th amendment like Bernie Sanders said.
I suppose it was not practical for him to do so.


Speaking of ads for automobiles
General Barry McCaffrey(Ret.)? He was all over the mainstream media and NPR giving his expert testimony. Turned out he was getting paid by the Pentagon and defense contractors to say the right thing. Would you buy a used war from that guy?

mnaz.
Yeah better McCain and Palin. I would sleep better at night knowing she was a heartbeat away from the button to release death on millions.

Who in his right mind could possibly think Bush?
Jesus h christ. :roll:

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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by saw » August 4th, 2011, 9:35 am

yes truck, I like Link TV as well, you can also stream it on your computer which works better for me, than being available when the shows are on television....

I've given up on NPR & PBS....once again, any entity with corporate sponsorship is restricted on what they can say.......

I too was in favor of Obama using the 14th amendment, it would have been a courageous move...one which could have hindered his further political aspirations, but wow, it sure was a golden opportunity to challenge the forces that are growing in strength each day.....they are now emboldened like never before....

All in all, Obama has been a huge disappointment......if you go back and listen to his campaign speeches, he simply has not come through on his promises, and seems to not have the balls to stand up for the things he claimed to hold dear

If I hear one more speech where he claims to know what the " American people"
want, I think I'm gonna puke.
If you do not change your direction
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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by mtmynd » August 4th, 2011, 2:45 pm

Steve: "If I hear one more speech where he claims to know what the 'American people want,' I think I'm gonna puke."

Not only Obama... seems as tho every party who has the microphone says the same thing. It's as tho I do not exist which is weird because I pay taxes and vote but yet I'm not the American the politicians seem to talk about. Must be my wealth... or lack of.
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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by Steve Plonk » August 15th, 2011, 9:27 pm

So, who are you folks gonna vote for? ... Michelle Bachman(sic) the Witch of the Midwest? As for me, no thanks, I'm sticking with the Unions & the Democrats.
One can't get what one pays for without increasing taxes. That is, unless you rob a mousetrap of cheese...There's no free lunch, folks. Soak the rich and
vote against "the witch". Hell, Pawlenty is making more sense and he dropped
out of the GOP race in disgust. :lol:
...We need to keep an eye on Perry, that "good ole boy guv-ner" from Texas.
He's got a shiny young face and is up and coming. So, Obama, you have your
work cut out for you--keep on punching! So, Barack, Live on float, like a butterfly, and sting like a bee...Oh hell, yeah! Can't stop the blue hawaiian! 8)

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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by stilltrucking » August 15th, 2011, 9:47 pm

Unless I have some sort of psychotic episode I can't see myself voting for a repulican. That is if I do vote at all. I am not sure I will vote in the next election. Libya has turned me off to politics. Mostly I keep up with it just out of curiosity as to what absurdity will unfold next.

I am sticking with the union too.
How many teamsters does it take to change a light bulb?
Six, you got a problem with that?
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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by Steve Plonk » August 19th, 2011, 10:23 pm

Chattanooga used to be a great Teamsters town. I don't know if it still is or not. We have plenty of truckers getting piggybacked on the trains.

I think I will always vote Democratic because of how they help the
unions and working folks. I was a member of several unions in my day.
I reallly am aggravated by the way the "right to work" states have tried
to bust the unions. Some of these states have republican governors, like
Wisconsin & Tennessee. I've never crossed a picket line.

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Re: obama essentially = bush, mccain? (worse?)

Post by stilltrucking » September 5th, 2011, 11:55 am

I like him, I really do, I just don't think he is very good as a politician. He would have probably been a great senator. Oh well at least I don't feel like spitting at my television when I see him. I still can not see or Hear george w bush with out getting pissed off.
here is a snip from a editorial about Obama, I think the guy does not give Pelosi and Reid credit for the fiasco. I find them more at fault than Obama. Obama is a just an innocent babe in the woods compared to them. Pelosi and Reid are supposed to be seasoned politicians. Yet they let the repuplicans outfox them everytime. I don't know if anyone has read George McGovern's open letter to Obama. You read it here if you want.
What is wrong with Obama? McGovern urges him to go down fighting, better to be a one term president than an amoral political hack. _________________________________________________


What Democrats can do about Obama
A liberal argues that the 2012 Democratic nomination should be debated -- with all options open


Obama has ruined the Democratic Party. The 2010 wipeout was an electoral catastrophe so bad you'd have to go back to 1894 to find comparable losses. From 2008 to 2010, according to Gallup, the fastest growing demographic party label was former Democrat. Obama took over the party in 2008 with 36 percent of Americans considering themselves Democrats. Within just two years, that number had dropped to 31 percent, which tied a 22-year low.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_ ... ddaughters
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