war with iran

What in the world is going on?
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Arcadia
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Re: war with iran

Post by Arcadia » February 21st, 2012, 11:10 am

Cecil: I share your questions...!

Ron: so did you teach Ancient Greek story! me too! (but each more or less three years, you know, then I do a passage again to Santa Fe´s history and Argentinian history... :D).Regarding point 1. I have to say that I can´t share at all the Bahais confidence in the ONU ... and about point 2. I experienced that in other fields (in theory different to international politics) so who knows!. Gracias for sharing the Jung text with us!. Ahh.. the beautiful templo in that old magazine was the Angra one! (time for lunch, again! :wink: )

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Re: war with iran

Post by RonPrice » February 21st, 2012, 8:34 pm

Thanks, Arcadia. Just a note on Spanish. I studied it for about 3 weeks in my first year at university, 1963, while I was trying to work out a package of courses I would be sure to pass to get that survival tool, the B.A. I realized I would have to memorize too many words, and I had had enough of French and Latin at high school. So I dropped Spanish, picked up Economics, then dropped Economics since it was worse than Spanish(at least for me). Then I picked up Geography. Anyway I got that BA in 1966.

Now all I know now is: "Hasta la vista, baby" that catch phrase associated with Arnold Schwarzenegger's title character from the 1991 science fiction thriller film Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Time for lunch at this end.-Ron
married for 46 years, a teacher for 35, a writer and editor for 14 and a Baha'i for 54(as of 2013)

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Arcadia
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Re: war with iran

Post by Arcadia » February 21st, 2012, 10:22 pm

:lol:

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mnaz
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Re: war with iran

Post by mnaz » March 2nd, 2012, 5:35 pm

two more articles to ponder on. let's start with washington's war drums:

"Obama Sharpens Rhetoric on Iran" (3 / 2 / 12, by Carol E. Lee and Paul Vieira in Ottawa)
(well--- it is an election year, after all . . .)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world ... -bomb.html
Mr. Netanyahu warned Friday in Canada of the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran and cautioned Western leaders not to be deceived by the prospect of diplomatic talks with the Islamic regime.
yeah. gee, go figure that one . . .
Mr. Harper (Canadian P.M.) has said the Iranian regime frightens him, adding there is overwhelming evidence Tehran is trying to build a nuclear weapon.
how can you tell when a politician's lying? when his lips are mov . . . oh never mind. where is this "overwhelming evidence?" you mean, like the "overwhelming evidence" mentioned in this n.y. times article?

"U.S. Agencies See No Move by Iran to Build a Bomb" (by James Risen and mark Mazzetti, 2 / 24 / 12)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world ... -bomb.html
Recent assessments by American spy agencies are broadly consistent with a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program years earlier, according to current and former American officials. The officials said that assessment was largely reaffirmed in a 2010 National Intelligence Estimate, and that it remains the consensus view of America’s 16 intelligence agencies.
holy crap. we have sixteen spy agencies? what the? . . .
In Senate testimony on Jan. 31, James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, stated explicitly that American officials believe that Iran is preserving its options for a nuclear weapon, but said there was no evidence that it had made a decision on making a concerted push to build a weapon. David H. Petraeus, the C.I.A. director, concurred with that view at the same hearing. Other senior United States officials, including Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta and Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have made similar statements in recent television appearances.
and this . . .
Amid the ugly aftermath of the botched Iraq intelligence assessments, American spy agencies in 2006 put new analytical procedures in place to avoid repeating the failures.
btw, here is that same old official line again. i think it misses the point of the bush administration's intent to mislead, regarding iraq. these "failures" were not "honest mistakes." but then, this is the n.y. times-- major media, so there you go . . .

"overwhelming evidence" indeed. these people are out of control.

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Re: war with iran

Post by mtmynd » March 3rd, 2012, 1:27 am

Re: "holy crap. we have sixteen spy agencies? what the? . . ."

... and there are still those idiots who swear Obama is not a U.S. citizen. With that many spy agencies, you'd think at least one of them would know if Obama was NOT a citizen.

The last pest with that line is Arizona Sheriff Arapaio.... and his 'evidence' that the birth certificate shows signs of forgery! There is no end to the urgency to denounce Obama coming from the right (what the hell is so right about them?).
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Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » March 4th, 2012, 12:46 am

It was the summer of 2008 do you remember when Obama shifted his position on Israel v. Iran :? why am I the only one who remembers that?

Israel will do it, with us or without us. That's my opinion for what it is worth.

God is out of control.

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Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » March 5th, 2012, 5:08 am

There was a sharply different reaction at J Street, a prominent pro-Israel lobbying group that is less hawkish. Daniel Levy, a former Israeli peace negotiator, said Mr. Obama “gave the domestic and mainstream Israeli audiences what they wanted without giving Bibi what he wanted,” referring to Mr. Netanyahu’s nickname. “He refused to lie down for Bibi.”

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Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » March 5th, 2012, 9:19 am

Israel would be wise to listen to Obama's advice on Iran
Israel would do well to internalize an important statement by Obama: 'As president and commander in chief, I have a deeply-held preference for peace over war.'
Haaretz Editorial


http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... n-1.416521

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Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » March 7th, 2012, 3:02 am

.Op-Ed Columnist
Liz Cheney: Desist!By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: March 6, 2012

Oh, Barack.

You want to analyze the cost and consequences of war before you go to war?

Such a snob. Such a green eyeshade rejection of the red-hot Bush doctrine.

What’s wrong with bomb first and think later? That worked fine in Iraq. Or not.

Mitt Romney believes bombing Iran would be a cakewalk, even though his foreign affairs experience amounts to making sure skiers had a nice downhill run at the Salt Lake City Olympics.

“If Barack Obama is re-elected,” Romney robotically swaggered in Georgia, “Iran will have a nuclear weapon and the world will change if that’s the case.”

That apocalyptic answer came in response to a question from an 11-year-old boy at a pancake breakfast. Romney is channeling Dick Cheney, who wooed voters in 2004 with the cheery mantra that voting for John Kerry would lead to a terrorist attack. Message: You die.

Speaking by satellite to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference here, Romney outpandered himself.

“I will station multiple aircraft carriers and warships at Iran’s door,” he said as if he were playing Risk. Not afraid to employ “military might” (or alarming alliteration), Romney wrote a blank check to Bibi Netanyahu, who governs a nation roiling with reactionary strains, ultra-Orthodox attacks on women and girls and attempts at gender segregation, and increasing global intolerance of the 45-year Palestinian occupation.

As the New Yorker editor David Remnick wrote, Netanyahu and his supporters too often “consider the tenets of liberal democracy to be negotiable in a game of coalition politics.”

Nonetheless, Romney promised that “Israel will know that America stands at its side in all conditions and in all consequence.” We will support Israel when its survival is threatened. But we can’t possibly support every single military action of every single Israeli government.

Romney crudely painted Obama as an Arab sympathizer. “As president, my first foreign trip will not be to Cairo or Riyadh or Ankara,” he said. “It will be to Jerusalem.”

The Israeli fear of an Iranian nuclear weapon must be respected, not least because the regime intent on developing this weapon is the world’s greatest center of Holocaust denial. And the timing is tricky. As Bill Kristol put it, Obama’s urge to wait “would precisely undermine Israel’s ability to determine her fate.”

But I’d feel better if our partner was not the trigger-happy Netanyahu, who makes hysterical arguments even in the absence of a dire threat. At Aipac, he compared those who want to be less hasty than he does to America’s refusal to bomb Auschwitz in 1944.

I’d also feel better if war was not being mongered by the same warmongers who drew us into a decade of futile, bloody, expensive and draining battles.

At Aipac, Liz Cheney urged that we put ourselves in Israeli hands because “America’s track record on predicting when nations reach nuclear capability is abysmal.” She’s right about that, given her father’s wildly erroneous assertions about W.M.D.s in Iraq.

“There is no president,” she outrageously averred, “who has done more to delegitimize and undermine the state of Israel in recent history than President Obama.”

The Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, promised “overwhelming force” on Iran if necessary. And John McCain, who is also calling for an international air assault on Syria, agreed with Liz Cheney, arguing that since the U.S. was “surprised” when Pakistan and North Korea got nuclear technology, it was not fair to ask Bibi to rely on Barry’s judgment about when to use force.

Let’s get back to pre-emptive wars!

The campaign sugar daddy of Newt Gingrich (and soon, Romney) is Sheldon Adelson, a multibillionaire casino owner and hawkish Zionist who endorses Gingrich’s view that the Palestinians are “an invented people” who have no historic claim to a homeland. Gingrich told Aipac that “if an Israeli prime minister decides that he has to avoid the threat of a second Holocaust through pre-emptive measures, that I would require no advanced notice to understand why I would support the right of Israel to survive in a dangerous world.”

At a press conference Tuesday, the president excoriated the “bluster” and “big talk” in this political season about bombing Iran. “When I see the casualness with which some of these folks talk about war, I’m reminded of the costs involved in war,” he said, adding: “This is not a game. And there’s nothing casual about it.” There would be consequences for both Israel and America, he cautioned, “if action is taken prematurely.”

“When I visit Walter Reed, when I’ve signed letters to families,” he said, “whose loved ones have not come home, I am reminded that there is a cost.”

And, he noted dryly, “Typically, it’s not the folks who are popping off who pay the price.”

Given our decade of misadventures, it’s astonishing that the hubris still trumps the humility.

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Arcadia
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Re: war with iran

Post by Arcadia » March 7th, 2012, 2:15 pm

Romney crudely painted Obama as an Arab sympathizer. “As president, my first foreign trip will not be to Cairo or Riyadh or Ankara,” he said. “It will be to Jerusalem.”

at this point six months in Hawaii (even though is not foreign for you) sounds as a healthier option for Mitt... :roll:

yesterday I saw & heard on TV to Shimon Peres, Obama & Netanyahu ... in something like a Sionist party...thrilling, really... Is it only barking?. Well, they are not dogs, so it´s never only barking...

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Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » March 8th, 2012, 1:35 am

Israel’s Bibi Netanyahu is pressing for military action against Iran’s nuclear sites. ...But as Netanyahu rallies his American supporters and discourages diplomatic engagement with Tehran, some intelligence officials and Iran experts tell The Daily Beast that an Israeli attack may be exactly what Tehran’s most hard-line leaders have been trying to provoke.

... the mullahs in Tehran may see an Israeli strike as a solution to their internal political problems.


I don't know what the hell is going on. I used to have a dog that could fart the star spangled banner. It was a very patriotic dog.

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Arcadia
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Re: war with iran

Post by Arcadia » March 8th, 2012, 12:56 pm

some intelligence officials and Iran experts tell The Daily Beast that an Israeli attack may be exactly what Tehran’s most hard-line leaders have been trying to provoke.

... the mullahs in Tehran may see an Israeli strike as a solution to their internal political problems.


the "Daily Beast"??? Is that a newspaper??? :shock:

I don't know what the hell is going on. neither I, maybe just bussiness are bussiness... I hope Mohammed, Yaveh & Esther have a good day! :roll:

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Arcadia
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Re: war with iran

Post by Arcadia » March 8th, 2012, 8:41 pm

today´s article in pagina12 about Obama (it´s Gelman again, I know Steve don´t like him too much but... )

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/contr ... 03-08.html

what if a massive USA´s people support against a possible war with Iran changes his suppossed "arrinconado" condition...? :roll:

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stilltrucking
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Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » March 11th, 2012, 11:21 am

The Daily Beast is a right wing conservative blog.

Everything is on time on schedule I tell myself
Plenty of Jews in the world, why should I concern myself with a few millions in the middle east?



sorry about the ramble mnaz.
You know how racist I can be.

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Re: war with iran

Post by Steve Plonk » March 12th, 2012, 1:28 pm

Kind folks and gentle people, war with Iran is quite unlikely...But if there
is a first strike made, I think there will be retaliation from somewhere...
Why borrow trouble from Gelman and the "Daily Beast", Romney, et al...?
Hell, who cares what they say?! They're just "jingoistic provocateurs".
Which side is right? No one's right if everybody's mistaken. Let's ask for our countries to use the United Nations and keep the Iranians negotiating...

Diplomacy, as I said earlier, is the answer. No one, including Israel or anyplace else wants war at this point in time. I don't think Iran wants war...They may supposedly agree to inspections of their
nuclear facilities. China and Russia are on board on these
current inspection requests... The ball is in Iran's court, as we say in the vernacular.

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