they were talking about cuba on another site...

What in the world is going on?
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mnaz
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they were talking about cuba on another site...

Post by mnaz » April 16th, 2012, 1:59 pm

(it was a digression from the main topic) and i said..... sheesh you guys, we seriously need to watch our constant finger-pointing at the evil others.--- even if with some justification at times.

please, let's not be so naive as to believe the u.s. empire is the beacon of morality, justice and benevolence, pure as the driven snow against the forces of oppression . . . . really tired of that endless revisionist history and selective amnesia. okay, yes, the rise of totalitarian communism was probably the main driving force that escalated the cold war, but it's not as if the u.s. was blameless in the whole mess (see iran in the '50s, etc.). we need to be more realistic about this. for example, who was in charge of cuba before castro?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_ ... .931959.29
After finishing his term he lived in the United States, returning to Cuba to run for president in 1952. Facing certain electoral defeat, he (Batista) led a military coup that preempted the election. . . . . Batista suspended the 1940 Constitution and revoked most political liberties, including the right to strike. He then aligned with the wealthiest landowners who owned the largest sugar plantations, and presided over a stagnating economy that widened the gap between rich and poor Cubans.[6]
sound familiar?
Batista's increasingly corrupt and repressive regime then began to systematically profit from the exploitation of Cuba's commercial interests, by negotiating lucrative relationships with the American mafia, who controlled the drug, gambling, and prostitution businesses in Havana, and with large multinational American corporations that had invested considerable amounts of money in Cuba.[6][7] To quell the growing discontent amongst the populace — which was subsequently displayed through frequent student riots and anti-Batista demonstrations — Batista established tighter censorship of the media, while also utilizing his anti-Communist secret police and U.S.-supplied weaponry to carry out wide-scale violence, torture and public executions; ultimately killing as many as 20,000 Cubans.[8]
yeah, nice guy. freedom and democracy . . . .
The Dallas industrialist Jack Crichton joined with several other oilmen to negotiate drilling rights in Cuba under the Batista administration. Standard Oil of Indiana signed an agreement with the Cuban-Venezuelan Oil Voting Trust Company, a unit originally established by William F. Buckley, Sr., for access to fifteen million acres. CVOVTC was during the middle 1950s one of the four or five most traded entities on the American Stock Exchange.
sound familiar?
At the beginning of 1959 United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands—almost all the cattle ranches—90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions—80 percent of the utilities—practically all the oil industry—and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports. ”--- John F. Kennedy[26]

In a manner that antagonized the Cuban people, the U.S. government used their influence to advance the interests of and increase the profits of the private American companies, which "dominated the island's economy."[26] As a symbol of this relationship, ITT Corporation, an American-owned multinational telephone company, presented Batista with a gold-plated telephone, as an "expression of gratitude" for the "excessive telephone rate increase" that Batista granted at the urging of the U.S. government.[26]

Earl T. Smith, former U.S. Ambassador to Cuba, testified to the U.S. Senate in 1960 that, "Until Castro, the U.S. was so overwhelmingly influential in Cuba that the American ambassador was the second most important man, sometimes even more important than the Cuban president."[35] In addition, nearly "all aid" from the U.S. to Batista's regime was in the "form of weapons assistance," which "merely strengthened the Batista dictatorship" and "completely failed to advance the economic welfare of the Cuban people."[26] Such actions later "enabled Castro and the Communists to encourage the growing belief that America was indifferent to Cuban aspirations for a decent life."[26]

According to historian and author James S. Olson . . . "The U.S. government had no difficulty in dealing with him, even if he was a hopeless despot."[6] On October 6, 1960 Senator John F. Kennedy, in the midst of his campaign for the U.S. Presidency, described Batista's relationship with the U.S. government and criticized the Eisenhower administration for supporting him.
like i say--- neither total, heavy-handed capitalism nor total, heavy-handed socialism is "the answer." and to believe otherwise is to be a swallower of propaganda.

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stilltrucking
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Re: they were talking about cuba on another site...

Post by stilltrucking » April 18th, 2012, 2:18 pm

Good luck mark
Good luck reminding people that the United States has long been an empire. And we did the dirty deeds that empires do.

Cuba just ain't on my mind much these days, mainly Syria, man it is so in your face, makes me stop thinking so rationally time for the sureal, the absurd, seeing civilization for what it is, seeing it through the eyes of a Patagonian. I guess kind of like a shaman's eye view of the world.
and the courage to be free, free as Camus I want to be
I am just a want ta be existential strip teaser
part of my aspergers I suppose
:?

but I digress back to Castro.
I remember 1959 pretty good
Seeing Castro on The Tonight show, him staying at the Chelsea Hotel, chickens in his room.

But then he went home and the executions started, not just Batista's thugs, but doctors, lawyers, seemed like anyone wearing a shirt and tie. Maybe only a couple hundred, or maybe it was a couple thousand. Not sure.
I have read as high as 30,000. But what the hell do I really know? That is what the press was reporting after the rumors started to surface that he was a communist :lol: Where would we be without a sense of humor. But there it is.

. Hard to pin down the facts about the executions.
.

I would love to go to Cuba. Makes me wish I was a Canadian citizen.
Last edited by stilltrucking on April 18th, 2012, 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Arcadia
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Re: they were talking about cuba on another site...

Post by Arcadia » April 18th, 2012, 2:52 pm

what can I say... it´s a lot easier for me to have something like compassion, sympathy, solidarity, admiration and empathy towards Cuba than towards the USA, of course!!, it´s cultural! :) Though, I guess that they are facing rough times somehow and I wonder about the possible future of a present with CUCs as their money-unit and tourism (with a great ammounts of canadians and europeans) as their main enonomic source. I hope they will be creative enough to wave that.
Meanwhile, Canada and USA governments in the last Cumbre de las Américas showed their (for all well known at the moment...) old stubborness, shortsight, dependence and righteous-acritic-imperialist way intact... it´s more difficult for me to understand that ...
It´s a bit dizzy to consider the misterious, subtle (sometimes) and crude (most of the times) ways interdependence plays between some countries ... yeah! :?
I´ll travel to Cuba next July (if all goes as planned somehow), so I can tell you more about it after that! :wink:

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mnaz
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Re: they were talking about cuba on another site...

Post by mnaz » April 18th, 2012, 3:48 pm

good points, jack. like i say, neither total capitalism nor total socialism works by itself-- each his its place in meeting society's needs, contrary to the propaganda engines on either side. i.m.o. the economy should be capitalistic, but carefully regulated, and collective societal needs (such as health care, fire protection, education, etc.) are more properly administered by the public sector.

the fox noise bots, grover norquist and the koch brothers, et al, are out to program our pea-brains into believing that ANY AND ALL social initiatives within a capitalistic economy amount to evil "socialism" which must be eradicated in full. they of course want the "socialism" label to stick, so that people associate it with totalitarian socialist states of the past century or so.

totalitarianism is of course worthy of our resistance; however, totalitarian practice and effects are not strictly exclusive to either socialism or capitalism, as the cuban example shows (and to a lesser extent-- so far-- even the authoritarian drift of the u.s. shows).

and arcadia--- good luck with the trip to cuba! let us know how it goes ....

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stilltrucking
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Re: they were talking about cuba on another site...

Post by stilltrucking » April 18th, 2012, 5:46 pm

Are we drifting to a totalitarian state?
I kind of have a feeling that we have arrived.

More and more people are noticing the man behind the curtain.
I wonder is that a good thing?

What did the Wizard do that was so bad? We munchkins need our delusions.

I was thinking about Norway today. Sound byte from the trial. Such a sane country, I heard there is very little media hype during the trial, no circus going on outside the courtroom unlike how it would be in the USA.

Capitalism or Socialism, are we the only country in the world caught up in the race to use more and more resources and create more and more economic growth and consumer goods?

I just want the violence to end while we continue to consume our way back to our stone age paradise.

I think the future looks brighter for Cuba than it does here. But I am such an opti-pessimist.

Sorry I wish I had a real Cuban cigar. Then I would be content and sit on my hands and stop high jacking your thread

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mnaz
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Re: they were talking about cuba on another site...

Post by mnaz » April 18th, 2012, 11:05 pm

yeah, the whole global-capitalist "ideal" of ever-increasing consumerism, resource-extraction and profit-taking is dubious at best... certainly.

it gives us things like these: ...

"Global Capital's Death Squads and Night-Riders-- They Are Still Killing Trade Union Leaders" (by DAVID MACARAY, 4 / 18 / 12)

http://www.counterpunch.org/
On April 6, the body of Aminul Islam, the charismatic and widely respected union leader of Bangladesh’s garment industry, was found dumped along side a road in Ghatail, a town approximately 60 miles northwest of Dhaka, Bangladesh’s capital . . . . Since 2006, Aminul Islam had been a thorn in the side of the garment bosses, as he fought for higher wages, safer working conditions, and increased employee dignity. Many Bangladeshis work 12-14 hour days, make as little as 21-cents per hour, and don’t even get regular breaks. With a reported $19 billion in overseas sales in 2011, Bangladesh is the world’s second-largest apparel exporter. The stakes are high.

Most recently, Islam had been trying to organize workers at factories owned by a company called the Shanta Group. According to shipping records, Shanta produces garments for many well-known American companies, including Tommy Hilfiger, Nike, and Ralph Lauren. Because Islam’s activism was acknowledged to have been largely responsible for worker demonstrations in 2010 . . . business groups weren’t going to stand by and watch him convince Shanta’s 8,000 workers to join the union. So they killed him.
According to the Solidarity Center (the labor federation’s international arm, headquarted in Washington D.C.), nearly 4,000 Colombian trade unionists have been murdered over the last 20 years. Indeed, more trade unionists are killed in Colombia each year than in the rest of the world combined . . . . The United States supports the government of Colombia. We support this anti-labor government that gives lip service to initiating programs designed to stop the violence, but who, in truth, has done little to prevent death squads and night-riders from tooling around the country murdering trade unionists.

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Re: they were talking about cuba on another site...

Post by stilltrucking » April 23rd, 2012, 7:13 pm

That's news you will never see on our corporate free press

We are not only nice guys in America, we are also well dressed.
According to shipping records, Shanta produces garments for many well-known American companies, including Tommy Hilfiger, Nike, and Ralph Lauren.
you should probably stop reading this now cause it's all turtles from here on down>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For some reason I am thinking about a Cuba Libre
Remember the Maine?
Forget about it.

Accounts of the invention of the Cuba Libre vary. One account claims that the drink (Spanish for Free Cuba) was invented in Havana, Cuba around 1901/1902. Patriots aiding Cuba during the Spanish-American War—and, later, expatriates avoiding Prohibition—regularly mixed rum and cola as a highball and a toast to this Caribbean island.[1]
wicki
''Any man who's not a socialist before he's 40 has no heart; any man who is a socialist after he's 40 has no head.''
winston church...


All I can say to that is:
"Fifteen men on the dead man's chest-- ...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum! Drink and the devil had done for the rest-- ...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!"
I remember when jimboloco used to say that a lot.
I wish I had some rum

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