Doreen wrote:
yesthe lesson is... if you want it? keep a copy of it
I saved a copy of Adventures In Limbo, all five parts.
I just have to find it, in is maybe on one of these hard drives.
If not it might be on one of the these.
Dear Levi Asher
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stilltrucking
- Posts: 20607
- Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
- Location: Oz or somepLace like Kansas
I still got to litkicks a couple times a week. I enjoy reading brooklyn and the others. He is a very good writer.
Doreen wrote:
I saved a copy of Adventures In Limbo, all five parts.
I just have to find it, in is maybe on one of these hard drives.
If not it might be on one of the these.
Doreen wrote:
I saved a copy of Adventures In Limbo, all five parts.
I just have to find it, in is maybe on one of these hard drives.
If not it might be on one of the these.
Ok, I have to ask...
When I was told about this place, I was told about two or three other sites as well, one of which was Litkicks.
The first place I visited on that list, was Litkicks (which I found very slow, & sterile) and then I visited here, and in my openning post, I mentioned Litkicks, and was greeted with a "Litkicks sucks" comment.
Then I found this thread, and last night I searched, and found a few more threads, and... long story short, there's a story here, and I'm a curious cat, who'd love to hear it.
From what I can tell, reading what's been written so far, Litkicks was founded in about 1871, several decades before the invention of the internet, and sat there in cyber space, as a fairly over looked website until about the millenium.
At some stage, around about the turning of the millenium, maybe a year or two before, or a year or two after (traffic sites, and the archives, seem to indicate around 2001), Litkicks exploded, for some reason, and became a popular web community, with scores of members, who were all happy campers.
Then, around 2003, traffic starts to tail off a little, and in 2004 the community is closed down, before the site re-emerges as a rather dull blog, with about 10% of the traffic, and interest, that the site had had at it's peak.
Despite the obvious failure of the new format, it remains that way for the next 5 years, until now.
That's just me processing data, it's statistics, and numbers, but I'd love to know the story behind it all, as it does seem to be a subject that promotes an emotional response, and something that people seem to care about.
Why did it explode into life?
Why was it considered so good?
Why did it die?
Why was the community closed down?
Why was it turned into a dull blog?
Why, despite the failure of the new format, has it remained that way?
Why do people care so much?
It's rare to see someone, who has owned a website, for a billion years, deliberately kill it's traffic stream, spirit, and community, especially when it had clearly become popular.
There's clearly a story, or two, here, and, if it's not a sin to ask, I'd love to hear it.
When I was told about this place, I was told about two or three other sites as well, one of which was Litkicks.
The first place I visited on that list, was Litkicks (which I found very slow, & sterile) and then I visited here, and in my openning post, I mentioned Litkicks, and was greeted with a "Litkicks sucks" comment.
Then I found this thread, and last night I searched, and found a few more threads, and... long story short, there's a story here, and I'm a curious cat, who'd love to hear it.
From what I can tell, reading what's been written so far, Litkicks was founded in about 1871, several decades before the invention of the internet, and sat there in cyber space, as a fairly over looked website until about the millenium.
At some stage, around about the turning of the millenium, maybe a year or two before, or a year or two after (traffic sites, and the archives, seem to indicate around 2001), Litkicks exploded, for some reason, and became a popular web community, with scores of members, who were all happy campers.
Then, around 2003, traffic starts to tail off a little, and in 2004 the community is closed down, before the site re-emerges as a rather dull blog, with about 10% of the traffic, and interest, that the site had had at it's peak.
Despite the obvious failure of the new format, it remains that way for the next 5 years, until now.
That's just me processing data, it's statistics, and numbers, but I'd love to know the story behind it all, as it does seem to be a subject that promotes an emotional response, and something that people seem to care about.
Why did it explode into life?
Why was it considered so good?
Why did it die?
Why was the community closed down?
Why was it turned into a dull blog?
Why, despite the failure of the new format, has it remained that way?
Why do people care so much?
It's rare to see someone, who has owned a website, for a billion years, deliberately kill it's traffic stream, spirit, and community, especially when it had clearly become popular.
There's clearly a story, or two, here, and, if it's not a sin to ask, I'd love to hear it.
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Doreen Peri
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14541
- Joined: July 10th, 2004, 3:30 pm
- Location: Virginia
- Contact:
LOL! .. you're a trip.From what I can tell, reading what's been written so far, Litkicks was founded in about 1871, several decades before the invention of the internet, and sat there in cyber space, as a fairly over looked website until about the millenium.
OK, here's the story as I know it. Some of us who post here met at Litkicks. It used to have an open threaded format... not flat like this where you have to open the thread to see the posts.... but open like an outline. I stumbled upon the site after doing a search for something and I don't remember what. I got stuck there. Loved it! It was a very creative GREAT community!
Just like with most sites on the net, eventually there are arguments and rude people and people complaining and just a bunch of crap happening and so they started moderating it. Then it started to become a different place and I think the owner of the site was just overwhelmed eventually with all the bullshit that can and does happen on any site and he decided he didn't want to do it any more. Which is understandable because I have felt that way too sometimes when shit happens on this site that puts me in the position of having to call people down for slamming other people (that kind of thing) ... a position I'm not comfortable being in but which becomes necessary or else the site can get trashed.
So, the owner of litkicks made a decision to change the site to be more like he said he intended it to begin with.... to talk about the literature he was interested in (with a strong focus on the beat generation poets). He turned it into a blog, invited his moderators to post articles and that was that. Then later, they opened up the so-called "Action Poetry" section (which BEFORE, really WAS action poetry) but there wasn't any action any more because they decided they would review everybody's posts before allowing the post to be seen. At that time, people even got critiques and spelling and grammar corrections back from the moderators explaining why the piece wasn't posted. That kind of thing.
Now, they let the posts go through without the critiques and spelling corrections but I think they have it set that only certain people's posts can appear without them reviewing them. Mine don't appear right away. It takes a day or two. Some other people's do. I donno. I've never been able to figure it out, but that's my guess... some kind of permissions settings.
At any rate, the reason why some get emotional over the topic of how it was changed was that we were "home" there... that was our place on the net for several years. It was a great community and many of us knew each other. Some of us had met in person .... and done shows together .... had get-togethers, etc.
The change was so abrupt and without warning that it took many of us by surprise. I just think it grew so big that it was too taxing to manage and he didn't want to do it any more.
Is that the kind of info you're looking for?
Thnx Doreen,
Yes, that helps a lot.
So basically it was down to personality clashes, and drama and the usual internet wares then?
In that case, yes, I can understand peoples reactions, when you make a home for yourself, and then it's suddenly pulled from underneath you because of egos, personality clashes, and dramas and stuff it's not something that's going to leave the average member with a smile on their face.
It does sound a bit like the old "It's my ball and I'm taking it home" mentality, though.
It's easy for me to say that, as I wasn't there, and didn't have to deal with the day to day grind, that I know can come with having to run a website, where you're expected to be omniprescent, and infallible, but it does seem a bit drastic.
As for moderation, I hate it!
I understand there are limits, and that you can't have an EVERYTHING goes attitude, because that would be unfair too, but on websites I've worked on, in the past, I've always prefered the "after the event" school of moderation.
If someone puts up something unnaceptable, then take it down, rather than make everyone wait for their posts to appear, like naughty school boys.
To me, one of the wonders of the internet is that someone from New Zealand, Canada, China, and India, can all sit online, at the same moment in time, and interact, in real time, and there's no other, affordable, system in the world that allows such interaction.
Advance moderation kills that, kills that spirit, and that spontinaity, that can only occur, in a global sense, in this realm.
It also possibly explains why I found it "slow, & sterile", as that's a very old fashioned way of communicating, very dated, and prone to creating slow and sterile output.
People expect more, and better, than that these days.
Yes, that helps a lot.
So basically it was down to personality clashes, and drama and the usual internet wares then?
In that case, yes, I can understand peoples reactions, when you make a home for yourself, and then it's suddenly pulled from underneath you because of egos, personality clashes, and dramas and stuff it's not something that's going to leave the average member with a smile on their face.
It does sound a bit like the old "It's my ball and I'm taking it home" mentality, though.
It's easy for me to say that, as I wasn't there, and didn't have to deal with the day to day grind, that I know can come with having to run a website, where you're expected to be omniprescent, and infallible, but it does seem a bit drastic.
As for moderation, I hate it!
I understand there are limits, and that you can't have an EVERYTHING goes attitude, because that would be unfair too, but on websites I've worked on, in the past, I've always prefered the "after the event" school of moderation.
If someone puts up something unnaceptable, then take it down, rather than make everyone wait for their posts to appear, like naughty school boys.
To me, one of the wonders of the internet is that someone from New Zealand, Canada, China, and India, can all sit online, at the same moment in time, and interact, in real time, and there's no other, affordable, system in the world that allows such interaction.
Advance moderation kills that, kills that spirit, and that spontinaity, that can only occur, in a global sense, in this realm.
It also possibly explains why I found it "slow, & sterile", as that's a very old fashioned way of communicating, very dated, and prone to creating slow and sterile output.
People expect more, and better, than that these days.
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Doreen Peri
- Site Admin
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- Joined: July 10th, 2004, 3:30 pm
- Location: Virginia
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