Obama The Oreo

[stilltrucking]

I used to like that Nietzsche quote and take comfort in it, but now it is a cliché for me
Whether it was syphilis or Meningitis, it sure did not make Nietzsche stronger and it did not kill him.

Nothing to do with Clay's thread though.

You say it has made the Israelis stronger.
I wonder if it is making the Palestinians stronger?

Clay never seems to have much to say about John McCain, I find that curious.

[constantine]

perhaps a better word would have been tougher. i put no interpretative value on it other than that

[stilltrucking]

perhaps I am just grouchy as a bear.

it got me through some dark nights.

[izeveryboyin]

I am WAY late on this LRod, forgive my slump with reading your columns which I always find illuminating even when I don't agree with them. I think our darling J said it best

I am always a little leary when white people start telling black people what they need.

But I am always interested in seeing things from another cultural point of view... but like it or not, the term oreo is as much about race as the classification of black or white. Black people use it negatively against other black people, and it's insulting. I have had my experience with this term. Both on the receiving end and the offending end. It's funny because when I was immersed in my culture, reading George L. Jackson, Dubois, Malcolm X speeches and his autobiography, they made fun of me then, too. And I certainly didn't have a slave mentality than anymore than I do now. I really didn't expect a comment like this from you. It seems a little small-minded for someone so intelligent. I hope yo don't take that the wrong way, but that's just how I see it, and I know you'd never encourage me to be anything other than my blunt self. I don't think blacks suffer from a "slave mentality". I think the cultural problems we face are a direct result of 400 years of low self esteem that has yet to be diagnosed. But really, I can't see how you'd know either way unless you spent some real quality time in a real community of black people for a long period of time. A stint in the clink with criminals is really not a good representation of black society and culture.

--k

[Lightning Rod]

kayla,

Never Never Never would I ever encourage you to be anything but your blunt self. Also your honest self.

I have spent many years of my life in intimate contact with the black community. I'm not counting the time I was locked up. I'm talking about the years I spent working in the civil rights movement and the years that I spent playing with black musicians and performing with black poets. During those years the phrase 'some of my best friends are black' couldn't have passed my lips honestly. To be honest I would have had to say 'MOST of my best friends are black.' My grand daughters are sweet as chocolate.

I plan to write a more specific essay on the 'slave mentality' thing in the future. I'm sure that we will have a conversation about it then.

By no means do I think that all black people share this mentality, but you know it's a real thing.

Thank you for your bluntness, my dear and give jr. a blunt kiss for me.

[izeveryboyin]

I apologize for the assumption that you hadn't that kind of experience... but unless you've lived the life of a black person (which is how I should have put it in the first place) I don't really think this is something you can assess from the outside. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just how I feel. I won't deny that there is a problem in the black community, but there is a problem in every community. No group of people is perfect, so what makes any other race less problematic than our? I'm sure that if you looked at it in the right ways, you could make it so that every race was worse off. I think my main problem with this Clay, is that you seem to have become one of the many white folks out there who feel like they are in a privileged position to save the black people from themselves, and I think that, if anything, is the most insulting inference in the your explanation. You have no idea what it's like for a black person today because you aren't one. And that's the simple truth.

--k

Love you. Still love me?

[Lightning Rod]

touche kayla

you are right

I've never experienced what it is like to BE black. I only know what it's like to be a white person who has been quite involved with black culture. I know what it feels like to be stopped late at night by the cops and I'm the only little honky in the car with four black musicians.

I'm sorry if it insults you for me to make these observations. I don't appoint myself to 'fix' anything. Not my job.

[Nazz]

I'm not familiar with the 'oreo' descript, I confess. I live a sheltered life I guess. I think I understand the reasoning here, but the word seems so racially charged that it overshadows the message.

[jimboloco]

You have no idea what it's like for a black person today because you aren't one. And that's the simple truth.

No idea? Really? We got NO IDEA?
Cmon, I mean, we have some idea.
Afterall, we are human, in a deeper sense, because we have some idea what it is like to be traumatised in some form or another, and to see this trauma as a resilience that continues to plague all people who love American cultural diversity.

I agree that one person may not like the term vanilla oreo,
and that using oreo to refer to a black american with mainstream values is a way to take inner blackness away from that person, to devalue that inner spirit as inauthentic, however, fortunately, we here are all a mix of cultural experiences. Some of my own nurturing, very important in my recovery process, came from blacks, from the staff psychologist at the Bossier City, La Vet Center, to the old folks I carried as a driver for the council on aging in Shreveport, to my nursing teacher in the tech school when i was first starting and lacked confidence, to the black individuals who i work with today, as co-workers, patiients, their families, doctors, etc. So when I say that I am a vanilla oreo, I can do so without feeling that legacy of racial devatuation. Humor is a way to break thru barriers, as long as one knows that the ultimate thing is to heal self annd others.

[silent woman]

What do you tell a tell a brother when he asks you to give him a ride home after work. Sorry dude I would be too scared to be hauling my almost white ass into the ghetto.


As for not appreciating what Black folks go through with racism,

We got to move beyond this sheet izzy
maybe jimboloco could say the same about Vietnam Veteans and their war experiences, and living with the after effects.


Every one walking a mile in their own shoes.
But some of us are more clueless than others.


I read an article about how we need to get back to the america of Woodrow Wilson, the guy wrote about how we have to get back to the America of Woodrow Wilson, he wrote about the good old days of Wilsonian democracy when amurica stood for noble ideas, and I think about how many people were lynched during Wison's golden age and I wonder many soldiers got hung for mutiny because they stood up for fair treatment by the army after believing in Wilson's lies about how they would be treated as equals if they enlisted in his war to make the world safe for J P Morgan and company.

Sitting in a romm of truck drivers while a suit stands before us and talks about the good old days of 1776, and I watch the black drivers in the room silently rolling their eyes, no doubt remembering when the were three-fifths of a man.

yes there is a lot of that kind of nostalgia going round.




Hurts my head to think about this izzy.

I reject any attempt to frame this election in racial terms. This has nothing to do with color, not in my opinion. I am tired of all the whoop de do over Obama being the first black man to be nominated to run for president. He is not running as black man. He is the best man for the job. Anything else is bullshit. Like you I enjoy having opinions, that is mine. Any references any one makes to the race of a candidate is a snare and a delusioun.




As for white people not appreciating what it is like,
Now if you had said you don't know what it is like for a black woman, with the emphasis on being a woman.

No I can not , I can only imagine.

It blows my mind that McCain is even considered to be a viable candidate. The choice is so clear.

[stilltrucking]

I got what I had it coming iz
years later I thought about the elephant that I hit upside head with a two by four.

Why I got hurt that day was because I forgot where I was, I got too color blind.

But when you work with good men all day, the color lines disappear, not even anything to joke about, just a bunch a guys hauling freight acrosss a dock going all out to the max to get the job done. I should have dropped my union brother at his home and l drove right on out of there. I should not have got out of my car and tried to reason with that crazy bastard who came up to my car after I had dropped "rerun" (that's what all the brothers called him from that old tv show" off, this guy walks up to my car while I am sitting at stop sign and he starts hitting on my car with that piece of lumber and calling me n*gger.
Something bad in his eyes izzy, you know I done a lot of drugs maybe it was a psychadelic flash back but his irises were all weird and twisted. I don't think I was stoned at the time but I was sure trying to play the hippie love child with a guy who hated me.

"I always get what's coming
I never have to ask" ---jitterbug