Good Gaza!

Post by **one of those jerks** » January 5th, 2009, 4:42 pm

"What experience and history teach is this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it." (G.W. Hegel in Philosophy of History, 1832)

Post by **one of those jerks** » January 5th, 2009, 5:01 pm

"History is ot an objective empiracal datum; it is a myth. Myth is no fiction, but a reality; it is, however one of a different order from that of so-called objective empiracal fact. The myth is the story preserved in popular memory of a past event and transcends the the limits of external objective world, revealing an ideal world, a subject-object world of facts
Nicholas Berdyaev

I need to back off this Mnaz.

Not good I wish I had used an emoticon when I said bullshit. Just when I think I have finally used up my last drop of testosterone I start acting like a jerk.

Post by **Nazz** » January 5th, 2009, 5:05 pm

I mentioned the terror-like violence that accompanied the Zionist movement, but I suppose I should also study more completely on the Jewish refugee problem. It's easy for someone to say or imply that "they should have just gone somewhere else", but it probably wasn't that easy or simple, and that may be one of the biggest flaws, or omissions, in my abbreviated attempts so far at looking back.

Post by **one of those jerks** » January 5th, 2009, 5:51 pm

A good time for Alaska or Wyoming would have been sixty five years ago.

The Jews sure have been a problem. I wonder what it is about us?

I don't know what to make of it.

Such a small group of people

It is nothing mnaz

I will get over it I am sure.

You forgot to mention the settlements that keep getting built in spite of the agreements.

I am toast

I been spending hours everyday reading the news.

Post by **mtmynd** » January 5th, 2009, 6:24 pm

There should be an answer somewhere in this ongoing conflict. I'm not sure why I think there should be an answer... that's probably my first mistake in speaking about it. But don't we all seek answers to dilemmas to some degree?

How about this one? It came across my thoughts early this morning. Yeah, I think even in the early morning and about crap that nobody wants or needs to think about, but that's me. Anyway - the Muslims are doing everything with the Scepter of Islam hanging over their heads every single minute of their days and nights.

Wikipedia:

"Muslims observe five formal prayers each day. The timings of these prayers are spaced fairly evenly throughout the day, so that one is constantly reminded of God and given opportunities to seek His guidance and forgiveness."

The psychology of this five times a day prayer has to drive home the insistence of the religion to be in every single breath of those that are indoctrinated into this belief system. Five times a day one falls to their knees and prays to their god, their allah. If one does that most of their lives, and millions do, it is not difficult for me to see how affected this behavior is - nothing else but god matters and what their god says is fully in the hands of their mullahs and imams. To question their authority is to question their leaders who speak for allah.

Now this on its own, even tho I find it overwhelming, is something the Islamic community has been preaching for decades,, ever since the religion was founded. But there is no room for anyone else's belief system if it in anyway differs from their code... the religious path that Mohammed set down for the followers. To question that is punishable by some extreme or another. It has reached a point within some Muslim countries that anyone who doesn't follow Islam is not worthy of anything. They, the powerful and heavily brainwashed Muslim, has become an elitist. It is their way or death. There is no argument to be made. Anyone who doesn't follow their strict path of Islam has no right to live.

And this is in a nutshell, where the Israelis and Palestinians have gotten. The Islam based Palestinians, I don't see ever accepting the Jews only because they are (1) brought up to hate them and (2) the Jews are not Islamic so consequently should not live amongst the Muslims. Israel, a state as large as the U.S. state of New Jersey, is literally surrounded by a huge population of Muslims, and the vast majority of these Muslims, regardless of their country of origin, have no use for the Israeli state nor the Jewish people. How long can conflict go on before it erupts into a massive, violent, hate-filled war with no losers taken alive? All that energy simply wasted on breaking things and killing people. Who really believes all this is taking place in what the religious call 'The Holy Land" ? What is Holy about this?

I don't see how Israel or any other Judeo/Christian believers, (or any other religious believers for that matter), will fare in the future as Islam continues it's growth. It's estimated that there are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and growing in numbers. Compare that with an estimated 2 billion Christians, 14 million Jews and 1.1 billion secular/non-religious/agnostic\/atheists in the world.

Islam is the second largest religion in the world. That is quite staggering. But it also shows that eventually Christianity and the Secularist of the world may indeed someday clash, only because of the numbers involved. What we are witnessing in the Gaza conflict today is really nothing to where the conflict could eventually end up if religions start taking sides, if this continues to build.

It's stupid. I'm happy to see there are such a large number of secularists/non-religious/agnostic/atheists in the world. They may provide the much needed balance in an otherwise very unstable situation.

Post by **tonyc** » January 5th, 2009, 7:37 pm

The answer is simple.
The Palestinians need to quit harboring and enabling Hamas (a terrorist org).
Hamas has been using the Palastinians as human sheilds and Gaza as a launching pad for missiles.
What would the U.S do if Mexico was lobbing 90 missiles a day at New York?
If the Palastinians want to harbor terrorist and hide them behind their women and children, who's problem is that?
Israel has every right to protect their homeland.
God willing they will behead and annihilate Hamas, the terrorist cowards...
God Is Great!!!!(and bloody too)
Bottom line, don't start no shit and there won't be any...Hamas needs to knock the bullshit off.

Post by **Nazz** » January 5th, 2009, 8:07 pm

Hey tonyc. That's a real nuanced, penetrating analysis you put out there. "God is Great!!! (and bloody too)"... Yeah great, now there's some enlightened discussion. Shit. "Israel has every right to protect their homeland". And by any and all methods, right?-- such as extended, disproportionate retaliatory massacre, right? You think so? Well by that thinking, why don't they just use their nukes and get it over with? Huh? Oh that's right, Israel might get nailed by the fallout too. No, we'll just conventionally bomb the crap out of Gaza, invade it, blockade it, barricade it... yeah that oughta fix them tur'rists. Crap.

Post by **mtmynd** » January 5th, 2009, 8:25 pm

tonyc... that's so simple. why didn't i think of that? if they listen to you maybe 60 years of conflict will finally come to an end, ya think?

Post by **tonyc** » January 5th, 2009, 10:01 pm

Nazz

"Israel has every right to protect their homeland". And by any and all methods, right?-- such as extended, disproportionate retaliatory massacre, right?

Now you're just being silly, yeh right, kill fairly, lob a few missiles daily for five years, keep the murder in proportion.
There is no "proportionate response" to a terror attack and even if there where, why would a nation use it? All's fair in love and war.
Murder is murder, regardless of the tactics.
If the Palestenians wanted to live in peace, I don't think they would allow a bunch of cowards to hide behing their kids and lob cheap missles into a populated city.
They're getting what their hand calls for, God Willing!!!
I think Israel should take the cowards out once and for all and if people want to hide terrorist in their homes and behind their kids, that's their problem.

mtmynd

tonyc... that's so simple.

Actually it is, common sense dictates you can't attack a country with sneek attacks and not get a response.
End the missile attacks on Israel and the problem is solved (a complicated concept huh?)
Hamas is a terror org and a bunch of cowards, hiding behind kids, the Palestinians hate Israel and condone the missile attacks....sooooo caboom!!! paybacks are a bitch. (God Willing!!)
peace and love...

Post by **mtmynd** » January 6th, 2009, 12:28 am

tonyc... yes, it is asked of Hamas to stop the missile attacks and all will return to peace... until another outbreak.

it isn't so much this current conflict but this one is a continuation of several over a 60 year period of time.

of course there are wars in other parts of the world like Africa that has killed many, many more people than we hear of being killed in Gaza. But it's always the news maker - Israel and Palestine as if someone somewhere is anxious to see the great apocalypse as promised in the bible. Africa? nothing in the bible about that... why make news out of that? or so it seems.

as long as Palestinians and Israelis battle, there will be people condemning the attacks from either side... and the news will always have a story that people will follow. it is always a newsworthy story no matter what country writes the news.

so when people like me or any other's who voice their opinion makes someone uneasy or even pissed off, that too is only another response to a decades long event. if nobody wants to hear the opinions, the battles should never be reported. maybe that would slow down the ire from the age-long wars that always seem to interrupt the rest of the world to some degree or another.

but that is only hope. someday it may all pass and each side will reconcile their differences. we can all hope and, indeed we do...

Post by **Nazz** » January 6th, 2009, 12:43 am

TC, you're making statements here that you can't really back up, such as Palestinian civilians approve of everything Hamas is doing and could stop Hamas if only they wanted to. I think that's a chickenshit, oversimplified and one-sided way to "analyze" this current slaughter. I'm done with your noise for now. Peace and love, brother.

Post by **one of those jerks** » January 6th, 2009, 1:05 pm

I keep hearing the word disproportionate applied to Israel's response to the rocket attacks.

I am trying to think of what a proportionate response would be?

I just can't think this morning.

Every Israeli soldier takes an oath that Masada will not fall again.

What does that tell us?

I know nothing about Judaism just bits and pieces that I have read.

I listen to the Christian Zionists preachers on TV and it reminds me of that movie Raider's of The Lost Arc. Everybody wants that mighty vengeful Hebrew God on their side.

But that God has been hard on Jews. We never seem to be able to keep him happy. Always some transgression we have committed and the consequences of offending him are so harsh.

. Nietzsche had our number, "a priestly people filled with resentment", something like that. RE: The Genealogy of Morals

BTW the Muslims are waiting for Jesus Christ to return too. No kidding it is part of their end times scenario, Jesus Christ will return. I forgot what happens next.

Post by **tonyc** » January 6th, 2009, 1:47 pm

If we're gonna play the "proportionate response" game..then Israel should methodically launch 90 missiles a day (during a cease fire agreement) into gaza until they reach 6,000, that's what Hamas did.
Oh, I forgot, then hide behind the women and children and let them suffer the response..
God Is Greatest!!!!(or something like that.)

Post by **Lightning Rod** » January 6th, 2009, 1:57 pm

tonyc,

I forgot to welcome you to S8

It's always good to have a unique voice in the mix

Whatever happened to LU?

Post by **one of those jerks** » January 6th, 2009, 3:03 pm

I don't see it as a game.

But thanks for playing

Studio8 - Uniting the Arts

Good Gaza!

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