Could I put it any more bluntly?

[mnaz]

Okay. At what point do theoretical armchair hawks get off the pot and go fight? How many repeated deployments of other people's kids will it take...two, three, four? Do armchair hawks send their own offspring?

I know this is a sensitive subject but I specialize in that. I joined the army. First rule of war: Fuck You (for a good cause). And I hereby torch theoretical, fear-pimping indiscretions toward war, particularly this war (for a good cause). I'm physically unfit, yet manage to think. I've seen so much ideological savagery in my lifetime that I should be numb. What is one more misunderstood foreign war?

So now our kids have been sent to another prophetic sort of sinkhole. What now? Send more kids and guns? Throw more money? What now? What is victory? What is defeat? How will I recognize it? Just asking.

[mnaz]

in other words,
there's a war going on,
and no one seems to care that much.
This is what we do.
God Bless America.

[Dave The Dov]

As they march off to die
They stay at home
While the conflict ceases to end
_________________
Spyder Rodeo

[stilltrucking]

no one seems to care?

so many cares

so many

cares

[mnaz]

We're all so busy running around buying crap that we're supposed to buy this time of year (which our absurd, overextended economy desperately needs just to barely keep afloat for another year) and bickering about such utterly childish things as whether the signs at Walmart should say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays".... Yeah... "The war against Christmas"-- all over the news awhile back-- laughable, of course. The Daily Show did a nice spoof on it... "Walmart: It's where Jesus would have shopped".... Nevertheless, what the hell is wrong with us? Seriously?
Are we that materially obsessed and lacking in basic decency, focus, maturity and common sense?

Yeah.... damn "War-Against-Christmas" pinheads. We're fighting a real war out there! For nearly four frickin' years now. Remember? And guess what? The war is going nowhere, people. It was started by incorrigible looters and liars and our many-headed enemy in Iraq figured this out a long time ago (and rightly so). The U.S. military occupation is the catalyst of that ugly civil war. The "sects" may attack each other, but in the name of attacking the U.S.-- preventing the other sides from cutting deals with a corrupt US government and agreeing to become puppets. Our kids in uniform have been and will remain primary targets in this fiasco, left hung out to dry by the smoke-blowing bastards in D.C. who sent them there. It's time we all got a clue (and demanded that all these newly-elected faux Democrats also got a clue). I keep saying I'm not going to get angry anymore, but this pathetically incompetent, corporate-sponsored, basically pointless bloodbath in Iraq is too much to take for me after all this time. Where is the outrage? Oh that's right. It's all about who owns the politicians. We, the people, sure as hell don't.

Happy Holidays. (I'm declaring war on Christmas).

On second thought, maybe endless military occupation of Muslim nations (and periodic abuses therein) will bring peace and security to us all. Sure. That makes sense, doesn't it?

[stilltrucking]

hard to fell a tree with a blunt axe

they say the messiah will have come in the spring with the birth of the lambs for slaughter.

a dark time of year this winter solstice
yet a good time for a party
the wheel is turning
the light returns

it is best celebrated with pagan symbols
partly Roman Saturnalia, partly Native American Potlatch



My outrage shattered among so many out rages
The extinction of the goddess of the Yangtze
is extinct

Children are being born in Darfur
how can that be
rape?

Wars, we always got wars
What is so special about this war
why is this war different then any other war.

Yes I have the eye of a little god
A time of year for children
to starve to death.

I been thinking about the care and feeding of politicians and preachers

I am full of dark murderous impulses
I want to tear throats out with my teeth.

is that outrageous enough

I don't watch slasher movies any more.

I wonder why all those crime dramas are so popular now, especially the ones with all the autopsy sceenes. the ones with mutilated and decomposing bodies on morgue tables. Think it could be some izism's plot to destract us from the horror of the news from Iraq?

Yes it is only entairtainment. Not real, no more real than the news reels.

Let us keep our eyes on family values, sexual purity, less taxes, bigger prophets, we must not be destracted

as Stalin said
"one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic."

rant and raving
I wish I had drink
been months since I could afford a bottle.

take care brother, I hope you find some good cheer

[mnaz]

This is probably on the wrong board. Sorry.

What makes this war special? It might be the most brazen, transparent war-for-the-profit-of-a-few in quite some time. Despite the overall professionalism, honor, etc. of US Troops in general, the invasion reeks of insincerity and barely disguised imperial motives on a practical level, and impatient, childish tantrum-throwing and/or bullying on a world perception level.

Well anyway, what the hell do I Know? Well... I knew the election on 11/7/06, which Franken accurately called a "national intervention", wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to the collection of thugs and ignoramuses who claim to be "leading" us-- I figured that much right.
They really need to go. All of 'em. Impeachments across the board!
Holy shit, if you called for Clinton's impeachment but turn a blind eye to Bush's blatant ongoing abuses, then you're a pathetic hypocrite.

I mean, what the hell is it going to take for these people?

Ah hell..... I'm "preaching to the choir", I suppose.

No more outbursts, I promise. Apologies, again.

[stilltrucking]

I appoligize too
No more violent outburst
No more hitting and biting
Throwing bricks
Picking up knives
I have never had a problem with guns

Only one thing still really really really really really really really really really really really (sorry I tend to use to many adverbs)

what really pisses me off
the one guy who I would like to meet in hell
is Paul Bremmer

all this shit about training and establishing a police force, a civil service, an army. it goes back to the first month of the war. The stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid (I may be having a problem with adjectives too) that stupid son of a bitch with his De-Baathification program. The military tried to tell him that if he did that he would put fifty thousand insurgents on the streets of Baghdad overnight.

You know this time of year never meant much to me. I was more into candles and Menorah's when I was a kid. Dragged home a christmas tree one year and my grandmother was outraged.

You know anything about the Potlach's in the Pacific Northwest?

Interesting custom, reminds me of christmas consumerisms. Six billion people and we all want the american dream.


Lets go hang some mistle toe

[stilltrucking]

too put it bluntly I am sorry I replied to your
to your
what ever it was


maybe the poetry and politics board would have been a good place for it.

My eyes glaze over
you see america
yes yes
but I see mankind
you are angry at america
i am disgusted with mankind

what you see as a particularly american problem
I see as a disease called man

meanwhile
if we are really celbrating the birth of the messiah
then this is a holiday that is really about children

What is the point to sieze on every inanity of the popular press and rant about it.


War against christmas
yeah that will sell a few more magazines
give Rush Limbaugh a boost in the ratings.

why do you even care about that?
Christmas is about status
It is a potlatch.

at least that is how we celebrate here in the new world

There are some very nice christmas traditions in the old world, I just watched PBS special, Norway, England, I forgot the rest already



I even put up christmas lights this year
they spell out "Bah Humbug"

you buying any gifts for children this year?

[mnaz]

Yeah, but it is a mankind issue. It's a big deal, U.S. conduct in the world today, because there are some very large armies out there that could do the U.S. substantial harm. But mainly because there is nuclear material floating around-- more of it than ever before. Perhaps it was always just a matter of time before before some wacko blows up half a town..... but to stay in this failed Iraq policy, with its well-known abuses and high civilian death count, against the will of most Iraqis and the Muslim world in general, is practically begging for disaster.

It's time for Bush to admit his failed policy. Split the country in three, divide up the resources, and get the troops out. Now. Keep them in an "over-the-horizon" capacity if you want, but get them out, man. It's over. I don't care if we send a million troops. Ain't gonna get it. It's over.

And Doreen can move this to Culture or Discussions if she sees fit. Nothing wrong with that. I just want to get people talking about this. It's as if we're all asleep on this thing. I hate the thought of becoming politically active, since I basically despise politics, but I might have to. It might come down to that in the coming year. We need to put some serious heat on these so-called "leaders" of ours. We need to make more noise.

And yes, I am buying gifts for children this year. Happens every year. I'm thankful to have the opportunity.

Anyway... thanks for replying, Jack.

[stilltrucking]

we got double thread the war against christmas and the war against Iraq

what's not to like about christmasThe emergency rooms are humming
The roads are full of drunks

And during world war one
the soldiers declared a truce
--------------------
On the war, I don't know mark, maybe you touched a nerve with the comment about the democrats, they have not had a chance to do anything yet.

Do I sound not outraged about the war? Maybe I am numb. I could not believe it when we actually attacked Iraq. I never really thought we would do it. Maybe I am in denial


I have no idea what bush will do next.


Lets not despair about the democrats until they give us reason.
I am hoping that when the congress starts to issue supeanas for information that the republicans have been stone walling, maybe enough dirt will come out to take cheney down. My only hope at this point is for congressional oversight.

It is a Chinese curse alright, we live in interesting times.

This is from 2003. But I think it is still relevant.


Q. You're a non-believing Muslim but there's a generation of younger Muslims who are very much believers and they are not negative to the concept of the jihad. What gaps does the Islamic fundamentalism fill for them? How do you respond to them?

Ali: Lets be clear. I'm an atheist. There is a big vacuum in the Muslim world. Secular impulses that were very strong and took the form of nationalism, socialism or communism were wiped out after the pre-emptive war waged by Israel (backed by the US) in 1967. In Indonesia which had the largest communist party of the the non-communist world there was a CIA-supported massacre in 1965 when over a million communists were killed. In this vacuum , after the Cold war, Islamists of various hues stepped in. The young are attracted by jihad because they see NO other resistance to the Washington consensus. It is a rejection of neo-liberal consumerism and military expansionism. I respond to them by arguing that the Empire will only be defeated politically, not militarily. And that requires a politico-economic vision that is infinitely superior to what the Empire offers. A return to early Islam or Talibanisation is a grotesque joke.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/wtc/fundame ... battle.htm


Americans are so ignorant of our dirty deeds the past fifty years. We have finally created more problems than all the former European colonial powers did in their hay day


Maybe I am more scared than outraged. These maybe the good old days.

Maybe because I rarely see children anymore in my family, only thing that cheers me up is the children. Suffer the children. We dam sure suffering the children all right. Christmas last year a five year old boy starved to death in san antonio on christmas day.

[stilltrucking]

Most of all
I am sorry for the quality of my writing mnaz.

All I see is the end of the world. I would probably have more hope if I had children to hope for.

Everything looks grim to me
But it is my world view that is grim
I don't know what happened to America
Perhaps there never was an America

Do you remember the first couple of months of 2001, when Cheney held his secrret energy policy meetings? Ken Lay and the boys from Enron were there. I would love to see the records of those meetings released.
Or leaked. Reporters have been after them for years but the government has stone walled and the republican congress would not supeana.

Plenty to despair about. Somehow we got to rise above it. Maybe that is what this is all about.

It is all about pundits, the american people see these bright shinny faces from the A.E.I. telling them that there is an answer. And there are plenty of answers. they repeat and repeat the answers, what I wonder is how come they get so much face time on tv? How does a Moonie paper like the Washington Times become so respected?

What do we know? What do they know? Does anyone believe what they are saying anymore?





The botttom line argument for the war is that we have not been attacked on our homeland for over 4 years. Knock on wood and praise G W Bush for keeping us safe. Why would they want to attack us here I wonder?
What I think about is the people here who are parents, their hopes for the next generations.

Leaning on my own understanding based on data presented to me by pundits on tv. You know I am clueless



Got damn it mark, you sneer at my last best hope. I am impressed with Pelosi, I wish Boxer was the senate majority leader.

When I say I am sick and disgusted with mankind, maybe I should be more specific, I am sick and disgusted with men. Except for me. I am a hell of a nice guy.

Makes wish the roof will fall in on us.
then we can dig our way out of the rubble and start again.


I been seeing those guys from the A.E.I. on every Sunday morning talk show and every network evening news show. How did they become so influential? So many neo-con think tanks. Billions and billions of dollars siphoned to them over the past thirty years. They write the script for Bush.

Hitchens' Battle: Narcissus vs. Onan
The Empire Advances
By Tariq Ali *
Counterpunch
May 19, 2003

Q. Do you believe there is religious fundamentalism in American society as there is in the Islamic world? If there is, in what way is it expressed?

Ali: Religious fundamentalism in the United States is very strong, but is different from imperial fundamentalism. It happens to be the case that the current regime in the United states is led by born-again Protestant fundamentalists (Bush himself and Ashcroft are the prime examples of this) and they are in a coalition with the Likudist current represented by Wolfowitz, Perle and the American Enterprise gang. Apart from this we have to recognize that the United States, alone in the Western world, has a very large proportion of its population that is religious. 90 percent regularly affirm a belief in a deity and, moreover, believe that this deity is on America's side. Hence the 'God Bless America' stickers.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/wtc/fundame ... battle.htm

[stilltrucking]

http://www.slate.com/

seaons greetings

[stilltrucking]

I am trying to understand times

is this the nineteen twenties?

Kafka and the boys
what it must have been like to live in Weimar in the twenties
I once saw a exhibition called Decadent Art of the Nazis
I had to leave because I could not hold back my tears

pardon me mnaz
I am trying to catch up as fast as I can
I still have not been able to abandon all hope
trying to confine my outrage to random acts of kindness
HOwl for me
Howl howl howl

[mnaz]

Nothing seems to change, really. Or perhaps this human stint "evolves" slowly, glacially, in a collective sense. Or perhaps it's moving faster than I acknowledge, though not fast enough.

What's different now than 80 years ago is our proliferation of prodigious technology for mass destruction-- paired with something on the order of a squabbling preschool-level of collective intellectual and spiritual development. Seems like the gap has never been wider. It's a "singularity" point for the race. Pass/fail. Up/down. The rules have changed so profoundly in such a short time...

A gun enthusiast I once knew said that society would be a safer and better place if everyone packed a firearm, since would-be perps would think twice before committing violent crime. Might be some truth to that. What about the world stage, where we rapidly approach a point at which "everyone's packing" (in a big way)? .... Presumably today's collection of loose-cannons and "perps" (titled: "leaders") will think twice about their violent aggressions, right? Well, I'd like to think so.... Anyway, what the hell do I know?... Merry New Year.