Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situation

[Doreen Peri]

Edit... I read the MISSION STATEMENT on the ABOUT page. I didn't read all the other links. There are a lot of them.

[panta rhei]

I believe the human race can evolve to be peaceful and until we BELIEVE we can be peaceful, it will will never happen. So, I decide to BELIEVE it.

i totally agree with you, doreen. and i wasn't specifically referring to you in my previous post. it is a general problem that too many people express their opinions about subjects that they don't bother to get more profound info about than what they hear from the propaganda they're exposed to (be it other self-proclaimer experts or lopsided media).... and the less info they have, the louder they usually scream and insist on their ignorant bigotry.

again, i am not specifically talking about you here, nor about any one else involved in this thread. but it's a tendency that does show even here, and all i wish for in that respect is that we all are able to look beyond the patterns of our opinion and take into accounts other viewpoints and other truths and other needs.

and, yes, palestininas have been displaced. they deserve to get back homes and their dignified lives and an existence in respect and peace. and, yes, jews have been displaced. they deserve to get back homes and their dignified lives and an existence in respect and peace.

now let's figure out the details on how to achieve this! any ideas???

[panta rhei]

I'll repeat that both sides who have engaged in violence are WRONG. Both sides have blood on their hands. I believe this because I believe war is wrong. Violence is wrong. I'm a pacifist. I can't help it. I stand by my ideals.

again, i totally agree.

[panta rhei]

and p.s.:

maybe what i would wish for is that you ( and others) were not only shouting out how wrong the current situation for the palestinians is (which is is! no doubt about that!!!). i would also like to hear you shout out about how wrong the present situation for israelis is - how it seems impossible for them to finally have a home where they can live in safety and peace.

[Doreen Peri]

panta rhei said:

and, yes, palestininas have been displaced. they deserve to get back homes and their dignified lives and an existence in respect and peace. and, yes, jews have been displaced. they deserve to get back homes and their dignified lives and an existence in respect and peace.

now let's figure out the details on how to achieve this! any ideas???

The UN has been working on a solution for a long time. They have a plan which designates which territory both the Israelis and the Palestinians would occupy and both would be "states".

I believe their solution is just fine! And I think it would be good if both sides would agree to accept the UN solution.

This would give both the Israelis ad the Palestinians the safe home they both deserve.

[Doreen Peri]

Thank you, Panta, for all your input! I think this is a wonderful and important conversation!

[Artguy]

Blood is blood ....mine is no better or worse than yours...

[panta rhei]

are you referring to the 2002 road map for peace? yes, i agree - "a secure State of israel and a viable, peaceful, democratic palestine"....

good idea. now, how to get those involved to agree upon it??

...and thanks as well, doreen, for staying in this, and for providing your space for us all to talk, and for listening. it is much appreciated!!!

kurt: yes and yes!

[Doreen Peri]

I'm sorry, Panta. I don't know the date. Was that it? 2002? All I know is that the UN has a plan that MANY nations have agreed upon to designate territory for TWO states, one for Israel and one for Palestine. There are very few countries (I don't remember the number but not many... I'd have to look it up) which include the US which don't recognize Palestine as a state and refuse to agree with this plan, despite the fact that most countries in the world agree with it.

How to get them to agree? I have no idea, unfortunately.

[panta rhei]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_map_for_peace

[Doreen Peri]

I'm not sure that's what I'm referring to because it looks like that plan is a plan that the US came up with along with Russia and the European Union.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-roa ... -peace.htm

Maybe that would work. Sure. I don't know.

There's another plan which I was talking about where the UN has created a solution agreed upon by MOST countries of the world but which the US is voting against.

I'm getting confused.

Any plan that gives both Palestine and Israel recognized statehood with distinct boundaries would work.

And the US needs to STOP ARMING ISRAEL.

[Arcadia]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... m-1.481695

[panta rhei]

@doreen:
there was the united nations partition plan for palestine in '47, then (fast forward) there were other attempts, such as oslo and camp david, without the UN involved. then, 2002, the road map to peace by the madrid quartet (UN, EU,US, Russia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartet_fo ... iddle_East). don't know which different plan or solution you are referring to - maybe you'll find a hint here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_ ... and_events

@arcadia:
yes, that's one of the kinds of shit that keep this conflict aflame.... or should i say a shame...

[Artguy]

Doreen, not just the US arming Israel, but countries with sophisticated armaments have to stop selling arms to other countries to show their muscle. Russia, China, U.S. are all guilty.

[Atehequa]

Or swim away upstream, especially when the hook is bigger than the worm.

you are a funny guy, yes swim away, go away, yes yes yes

You're quite a cutup yourself

Actually I was pondering upon starting a thread comparing politicians, propagandists and shills to television evangelical preachers, carnival barkers and timeshare salesmen.

Far better water upstream. Free flowing, clean, clear and cool.