Continued rant at ST from my other thread ...

[whimsicaldeb]

Listen deb
you live on a different planet than I do
what i am saying is that it should be more in the face of americans, it should be on all three networks every time a soldier is killed and the name is released it should be right there in our faces, not for people with the internet, you would be suprised how many people don't surf the net.

I am talking about the people I meet every day.

If pbs does it why cant nbc or cbs abc fox. call me stupid I know why you do to

stay the course

I took this off my thread about peace demonstrations because if we're going to have it out (again) I don't want it happening in a Peace Thread.

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I don't think of you as stupid, never have, never well so GOD DAMN IT stop saying crap like that!

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I posted to YOU about Current TV [TV - Television - NOT INTERNET] - becaue YOU were posting to me. [And where are you posting to me? On the internet!] I was talking to YOU and about YOU answering your musing. Not your f*ing neighbors.

I am VERY aware that there are a great many people who sit and watch FOX (as example) all day long and take every stupid thing they hear said on it as gospel. I KNOW this Jack. They're happy (in their own fashion) little campers, afloat and bobbing along in their ignorance. That's why they are such loyal followers. Trying to talk to them about anything different would be like taking a "lovey" blanket away from a baby, a toddler. So why would anyone even want to? I certainly don't.

You might because they are all you have around you... but I because I have other people around me. A vast variety of different people and ideas and thoughts - and not all of them agrue with me - but so what. What we do agree upon is more important.

Example: I work closely with a woman who INSISTS that global warming is made-up; not real at all. So if we were to talk about that we'd be at odds. So you know what - we DON'T talk about it. Instead we talk about what we both love ... Racoons and raptors (Birds of Prey), and her cats - and her most beautiful (BEAUTIFUL!) art. And her husbands great photography...
http://heisingart.com/



And what the hell is all of that to her not agreeing about global warming?

Nothing!

It's about relationships - Jack
And relating
All the rest takes care of itself.

(yes - I KNOW how much you hate my optimism.)

I'm right about global warming; she's wrong - so what. The truth of it all will have it's day in the end and then she’ll know – and I’ll know even more then I think I do now …. in the mean time - what? I should hate her. Spend every moment I can arguing with her and trying to correct her – trying to get her to give up her optimism that their isn’t global warming.

No.
No!

No - she's too wonderful a person for that.
So is my aunt who think O'Rielly is GOD.
And my goofy uncle who thinks ... well; more than I can write at the moment.

I know I'm accurate; and I also know the score; what more is needed? I don't need to go around harping at them to feel my accuracy. I don't have to allow it to interfere with my love for them all - and luckily; they haven't allowed theirs to interfer with theirs for me.

But we also don’t have to put up with each others nonsense either. If we can’t find a common ground then the hell with us and off on seperate ways we go.

And I know for a fact that I'm sure as hell going to go following them around reading, listening to every damn thing they are saying. Nor do I want them doing that to me in return.

And if I we can't find a common ground with each other then the hell with us too, Jack – and if that's how it is - then please respect my wishes and stop following me around posting after everything I post.
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I was talking to YOU about Current TV (not those others your are referring to – your neighbors) – You. YOU - who does surf and use the internet.

Oh – and another thing; get and keep your facts straight: Current TV is both on the internet AND on you local TV cable Channel.

So – think about it / be creative – if you really want to brighten your stuck in the mud neighbor’s day; you might want to simply tune your TV to Current TV (or theirs!) and leave it on in the background as you chatter – and let ‘nature take it’s course.’

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It's NOT easy; it's not supposed to be EASY. Nothing Easy is ever Respected.

…

Never once have I said that was YOU were stupid; never once have I treated you as if you were on of those. Annoying, self-centred, stubborn to a fault - and now obsolete (like myself) hell yes! But stupid, Never.

And neither am I.
Stop treating me as such.
And stop showing me how much my optimism bugs you - I already know, I don't need constant reminders.
Oh - and stop posting 'stay the course!' to me too!

[stilltrucking]

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[whimsicaldeb]

Jack - it's really simple ... If you don't want me "flaming" you - don't put your ass in my path. Stay out of my threads and we'll get along just fine.

[stilltrucking]

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[whimsicaldeb]

You are a funny lady Deb.

I'm not being funny Jack. This isn’t a “game” to me.

I’m angry with the way you stepped all over a thread that is deeply personal to me, and the way you are still stepping all over a thread that is deeply personal to me.

I’m also angry about how you continually accuse me of twisting what you say and put words in your mouth when I don’t. In addition I can’t stand how you continually try to trivialize what ever I’m saying and how I say it and why.

You know I don’t want you posting in that thread, so what do you do? You do it anyway.

You know I don’t want to argue with you in that thread, so what do you do? Put another dig at me in that thread.

If you want to have it out with me – have it out with me here.

Stop posting your digs at me in that thread, stop trying to fight with me in that thread.

Do it here.

[stilltrucking]

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[whimsicaldeb]

I have no idea what you are talking about
could you tell what i have said that is so wrong?
examples please.

Okay, and I use this most recent post to give you those. But before I do know this. Posts take a while for me to type up - I don't do them quickly. In addition, I don't always have a lot of time to spend online. So I'm only going to give examples this once; using this post - and you will have to go through all your other posts and see where you do the same thing(s).

You aint making much sense
I do not hate you
where do you see hate
the only hate I see is coming from you.

I know you don't hate me, and I don't hate you either. (never have)

I'm angry with you - and showing it.
There's all, and that's the difference.

You are the one who sees my speaking out about what I'm feeling as why, speaking out to you about what I don't like that you do as me being "hateful" to you.

You are the one seeing/thinking "hate"
Not me.

You are the one who is showing that anyone who questions or confronts YOU is being 'hating you'
YOU are the one talking about it - posting this as 'fact'

Not me.

No wonder why you're confused. You confuse (project) you're own thoughts and feelings as mine.

You always accuse me of putting words in YOUR mouth; or twisting what you - when truth - it's YOU how is doing this: when you say/direct things at me like "where do you see hate."

And you do this constantly;all the time - just different things.
Stupid (saying I think of you as such) would be another consistent one you use. It gets to be too much.

It makes it almost impossible to actually have a conversation with you about anything because these types of twists are intermingled in just about every post you do; in any subject you're talking about. Thus going back and 'correcting' all your twisted misconceptions is practically a full time job.

That's why most of the time I don't bother, and simply don't reply to you at all.

When you do this in other posts that don't mean so much to me, or in other people's postings, it's easy to have patience about it all and just let it slide.

On this particular post, where my feelings - thus sensitivity - is running deep. I lost my patience with you, and much quicker than I normally would.

I don't mind you flaming me deb
if it helps you on your journey
flame away

"<you> don't mind" and "if it helps you on your journey" to me, are flippant, arrogant, self-centered and self-serving comments that do nothing but serve the animosity between us, keeping the fight going.

Again, my journey is personal - so keep your hands off. And also, I don't need your permission to flame you; so the tone of your reply comes across as arrogant.

Also: I actually don't believe you when you say that "<you> don't mind <me> flaming me deb". I actually think you DO mind; very much - but you just don't say that and so I feel you are emotionally dishonest (aka: another way you lie).

But I could be wrong about that part.

I really don't know with you; you're very cunning with your words and style of writing - and that doesn't always allows me to feel safe or sure around you. And that's another reason why I don't always like talking with you. I feel I have to stay on guard because I never know when your going to slip one in on me.

but please try to be more specific
maybe it will help me on my journey

That's what I'm doing.

And again "maybe it will help me on my journey" -said to me - is also another flippant, arrogant, self-centered and self-serving comments.

It's arrogance that makes think that I'm wanting to manage your journey. [ie: "It's always about you stuff.] You're journey is your own business Jack - like mine is my own.

I'm not trying to steer your truck, nor am I trying to take over and steer your life Jack.
Though I do know you accuse me of trying to do that all the time as well.

I'm not.

What I will do though is offer (OFFER!) guidance and other ideas when I see/think/or feel that someone may not know there are/is another way.

What I do is, if I find a place where I think things could be done better - I speak up and say so.

Like with the Current TV and artist Kathleen Crocetti's US and Iraqi memorial ... I doubt you knew about either of those things before I spoke up, and posted about them.

And that's why I do it.

If I'm wrong about what you know or not know, then I'm wrong and you can correct me on that in return; but it's unfair of you to take and twist my actions into me being/acting in a way I'm not* [*referring back to the beginning of this post and the example of you saying I'm hating you when I'm not]

Also, because so much of what you do is implied and created for events you yourself have twisted; most of the time when specifically or directly ask me challenges me with "when did I say that" or "show me where I said that" I can't. And I know you know this, and I feel set up and trapped by you. That also makes me angry.

I take great effort in making sure that what I'm quoting others as saying is accurate. Always have. To consistently imply that I do otherwise is just ... hurtful. Mean and hurtful. And I wish you'd stop doing that.

It helps me to see those pictures of young men and women who have been killed in Iraq. they scroll across my tv screen (no cable deb sorry) with their ages and hometowns. It makes them real for me, not just numbers. It seems to me that every one of them should be properly mourned, is that hateful?
flame away.
meanwhile I will excercise my right to free speech

Okay.

First:
I'm not inhibiting your right to free speech.

I ask you to back off in one particular thread - and take that twist it and blow it up into: "meanwhile I will exercise my right to free speech" in return.

You have this whole board, Jack. In fact, you even have your section on this board.

I'm asking you to back off out of ONE THREAD, a thread that means a lot to me personally.

That's not inhibiting "your right to free speech."

Second:

The comments that you made ..."It helps me to see those pictures ... - Did you make those, say it that way, from the very beginning.

No.
You posted that afterwards, after I first "flamed" you, by giving you access to information that you didn't have.

Now you're here: present this well written part of what you said: as an example of what? "look how reasonable I'm being (have been) and how unreasonable I'm being?"

I think so, that's how I've viewing this anyway. And this is another example of how you twist things, and then blame me.

It certain is another reason why I personally find you too dishonest in your communications to have any type of long term conversations with.

You always accuse me of putting words in your mouth; or twisting what you say or twisting situations; when truth - it's You.

These examples, and all the work and time and effort and just plain size of the post it takes to give them to you; is why I don’t want you posting in that thread. Why I don’t want you hijacking it - why I don't want all this crap taking that thread over.

Now this reply has taken me over 2 hours to do (again), so I'm just going to post it. And because this type of stuff takes some much time - I'm not going to repeat this again.

If my explanations and examples aren't good enough for you - or still leave you confused.

Too bad. This is it.

I can live with it - and you can too.

[stilltrucking]

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[whimsicaldeb]

Sorry deb you will not make me a second class citizen here.
Shine it on deb

You do that to yourself, Jack. You have been doing that to yourself all along. In fact you are doing that to yourself right now with that reply - and as usual, you're blaming me.

~shurg~

It's what you do and I know it, and that's why I wanted it all happening here and not in my other thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[stilltrucking]

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[Doreen Peri]

thank you for bringing this to the fireplace

i don't understand it because i haven't taken the time to read it all... i'm sorry, i've been very busy

just want to thank you both for having this discussion here rather than in the threads on the boards

all the best

[stilltrucking]

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[Doreen Peri]

I've read the thread now, Jack.

Calling her names is not a good idea, OK? So cut it out.

And no, she's just asking you to be kind to her, letting you know that sometimes she has felt insulted by your posts and telling you that in her opinion you often highjack threads with your posts.

That's her opinion. That's what the fireplace is for. I can't get into this argument of yours. Not my place.

She's also telling you that there is one particular thread she has out there which is important to her and asking you not to highjack it.

I'm outa here. Sorry I butted in.

Hope you two work it out.

[stilltrucking]

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[whimsicaldeb]

thank you for bringing this to the fireplace, <>
just want to thank you both for having this discussion here rather than in the threads on the boards
all the best

Thank you. I wasn't sure if it would be okay and I didn't ask you first, so thank you again for allowing us a place to hash it out.

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Jack - I'm not taking the bait.