Posted: December 24th, 2007, 12:09 am
jim, the 'settlements' are not the kibbutzim. Two entirely different sorts of communities - two entirely different ideologies and economic structures.
The kibbutz movement started in America and Russia to re-think social structure. When established here on land bought by the Jewish Agency or Karen Keyemet leIsrael (2 separate funds), they enabled an efficient way to clear rocks off land, drain swamps, begin agriculture, while allowing for intellectual pursuits, social bonding and eventually the raising of children. Heavy idealism of equality, male-female, rich-poor, began in these communities. Since people are people, the purist form of equality didn't last long, but enough hangs on even today to make a sort of different social structure than is found in cities.
The settlements were cities built to house private individuals. Entirely different.
Kibbutzim were often placed to defend our borders and kibbutzniks were known to take that position with humility, and a sense of purpose that did not touch the fanaticism that is often present in those who purposely go to live in the territories. Living within established borders is not like going to live in territories with no certain future.
Many nuances here are not yet clear. That's why it's often difficult for me to make things clear - there are so many historical twists and turns that i take for granted but of which you might not be aware.
Forgive this kind of slap-dash answer, but i have to go start my day.
just a fast thought....wonder what the percentage is of people who genuinely want to live in peaceful co-existence, room for all, ability to offer to all the basic human rights we all deserve. How many people really want to talk? And then, why don't we?
just a question.
cheers, have a good night/day
The kibbutz movement started in America and Russia to re-think social structure. When established here on land bought by the Jewish Agency or Karen Keyemet leIsrael (2 separate funds), they enabled an efficient way to clear rocks off land, drain swamps, begin agriculture, while allowing for intellectual pursuits, social bonding and eventually the raising of children. Heavy idealism of equality, male-female, rich-poor, began in these communities. Since people are people, the purist form of equality didn't last long, but enough hangs on even today to make a sort of different social structure than is found in cities.
The settlements were cities built to house private individuals. Entirely different.
Kibbutzim were often placed to defend our borders and kibbutzniks were known to take that position with humility, and a sense of purpose that did not touch the fanaticism that is often present in those who purposely go to live in the territories. Living within established borders is not like going to live in territories with no certain future.
Many nuances here are not yet clear. That's why it's often difficult for me to make things clear - there are so many historical twists and turns that i take for granted but of which you might not be aware.
Forgive this kind of slap-dash answer, but i have to go start my day.
just a fast thought....wonder what the percentage is of people who genuinely want to live in peaceful co-existence, room for all, ability to offer to all the basic human rights we all deserve. How many people really want to talk? And then, why don't we?
just a question.
cheers, have a good night/day